The Immortality Project

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The Immortality Project

The Immortality Project – or – Death and Denial – Guest Post by Humble Pie

Death has a tendency to put everything else into perspective.

My family recently suffered a bereavement. It wasn’t a sudden death but it was still far too quick and far too soon for any of us to get our heads around. As our loved one’s illness progressed, each of us, in our own way, began to prepare for the inevitable. In the end, whilst it was not unexpected, it was nevertheless very traumatic, for everyone concerned.

Grief is a strange and often debilitating set of emotions. Even now, a few months on, when the intense sadness and tears have given way (mostly) to disbelief, we still find it hard to fully comprehend what has happened. We might never completely ‘come to terms’ with that fact, however, we do accept that it DID happen, much as we all wish that it hadn’t.

Many of you will be familiar with the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Well, I am aware of having experienced each of these stages over the last year, as well as a couple of others which I wasn’t prepared for (a lot of personal reflection, a little guilt and a not insignificant amount of pain).

It seems to me that the Rangers supporters have been purposefully ensnared in an interminable cycle of the first two stages of KR; alternating between the denial of the death of Rangers and anger at what they feel has been done to their beloved club then back again to denial. This, as any first year psychology student will tell you, is a very unhealthy state of mind which, if not addressed, can quickly lead to physiological and behavioural problems.

At its lowest level, for example, people throughout the ages have continued to set places at the dinner table for their long-dead loved ones. They know in their hearts that the person has died but are comforted by the familiarity of doing the same things that they have always done. However, in extreme cases people have even kept and maintained the actual cadavers of the deceased, dressed them, talked to them and watched TV with them, in a state of absolute denial.

In archaeology, accepting and recognising the inevitability of death through conducting ceremonial burial services is considered to be one of the very first signs of a civilised people. You see, grief is a uniquely human and cathartic process i.e. it can produce ‘a feeling of being cleansed emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically as a result of an intense emotional experience’.

In short, grief is ultimately a good thing which leads you through a series of natural psychological steps towards acknowledgement of an unalterable situation, allowing you to take stock, re-evaluate and start to move on with your own life in a positive way.

That is what should have happened with the fans of the old Rangers.

Instead, this ‘never-ending cycle of the undead’ was positively encouraged by those many unscrupulous individuals who saw a way of making a fast buck from maintaining the ‘Then, Now and Forever’ illusion. Worse still, this resurrection fantasy is being facilitated by the very people whom we have entrusted to stop this kind of thing from happening in the first place. If only the SFA or the MSM had told them the truth, they might have had a chance to actually face up to the situation.

Unfortunately, these two bodies were so complicit in Rangers demise, so right up to their necks in the brown smelly stuff, that they were too afraid to face the inevitable anger which would have rightly come their way. So, they made up grim fairy tales to feed to the bereaved souls about non-existent ‘holding companies’, the ethereal ‘club’ which transcends death and by suggesting that it is ‘all a matter of opinion’.

Ernest Becker, in his 1973 Pulitzer Prize winning book ‘The Denial of Death’, posits that “human civilization is no more than an elaborate, symbolic defence mechanism against the knowledge of our own mortality”. This fear of death acts as an emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival instincts.

‘By embarking on what Becker refers to as an ‘immortality project’, in which a person creates or becomes part of something which they feel will last forever, the person feels they too have become part of something eternal; something that will never die, compared to their physical body that will die one day’. When this ‘immortality project’ is threatened it leads inevitably to fear, depression, loss of identity and sense of purpose.

In that case, the initial reaction of the fans to the imminent demise of Rangers was entirely predictable and understandable. “No way, this can’t happen to us, we are the people”. However, as soon as the full realisation of their club’s inexorable slide into liquidation began to sink in, came the expected anger. But towards whom should their righteous wrath be directed?

“Who did this to us, who are these people?” they cried. “Not I”, said Sir Murray of the Mint, “for I was duped”, “Nor I”, said President Ogilvie, “for it was never my role”. “Nor I”, said Mr Smith, “for I never knew nothing or nothing”. “Not us”, squealed the media monkeys in unison, “for that’s what we were told”, “Nor us”, said the SPL “it was nothing to do with us”.

“Who then?, we demand to know who these people are”, howled the horrified hordes. “T’was the Whyte knight”, they all concurred, “he alone caused this calamity”. “And the bampots”, sneered the slimy slug. “And the taxman”, puffed the pundits. “And the unseen hand of Mr Lawwell”, whispered the bilious bears from the safety of their den.

There were even those who tried to warn them, not least Hugh Adam, Phil Mac and RTC but they didn’t want to know. Even when their very own Messrs Green and Traynor spelt out, in no uncertain terms, that liquidation meant the death of their club, still they chose wilful ignorance. The MSM, with access to the same information, encouraged them to keep their heads firmly ensconced, ostrich stylee, on the banks of that ironically blue and white river in Egypt. Which just goes to show ‘you can lead a lamb to knowledge but you can’t make it think’

The point though is that the Rangers fans have heard the truth and once you have heard something you cannot unhear it. Even if you reject it, even if you deny it, it gnaws away at the back of your mind, infecting your subconscious.

Almost a year ago, I posted the following on TSFM. http://theinternetbampot.wordpress.com/2012/09/ in which I postulated that the SFA were too frightened to say anything which might imply that The Rangers were a new club.

Looking back at that post, I am amazed at how little the landscape has changed.

A year on and it has become apparent that the corporate cancer that destroyed Rangers has continued to metastasize in its new host. Charlotte’s revelations may have shown us that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than we first suspected. However, in my humble opinion, the information provided has only succeeded in ‘poisoning the well’ and deflecting attention from the main culprits in this disaster. Layer upon layer of complexity has been added to an already opaque story and the majority of her utterances appear designed to engage the more enquiring minds on this forum and consume their excess mental energy.

I know that some people are bored with this ‘debate’ but, to my mind, the single most important step for the redemption of Scottish football is the fan’s acceptance that The Rangers, who currently ply their trade in the SPFL First Division, are a new club. Once they have accepted that then everything else that they perceive has happened to them will begin to make sense. They will see that rather than everyone having a fly kick at them when they were down, most were actually trying to help them. It will also dawn on them that the very people who have been telling them that there is an anti-Rangers conspiracy against them are actually the same ones who are screwing them over.

Rangers were not relegated to div 3, The Rangers applied as a new club and were granted entry into the bottom tier of Scottish football. They are not banned from European competition, merely ineligible as a new club without the requisite financial ‘history’. Any reference to ‘rulings’ from ECA, ASA, the BBC Trust and any internal or so-called ‘independent’ enquiries are completely irrelevant, as none of these bodies are the final arbiter in this case. Scots Law is clear that there is no distinction between club and company after incorporation, when the company dies the club dies with it. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.

Sooner or later The Rangers fans are going to realise this fact and when they do, there will be hell to pay. Until they do, their new club can never become truly cleansed. Only then can they move on and only then can they join together with fans of other clubs to root out the real cancer at the heart of Scottish football.  That’s why the MSM and the SFA are still petrified to say anything. In the meantime the real creators of this disaster are sneakily positioning themselves further and further away from the scene of the crime.

I am sure the majority of us would happily accept a new Rangers, cleansed of its financial, emotional and supremacist baggage. A club that all decent Rangers fans could support without feeling any guilt about Rangers downfall or that they were being taken for mugs. The prospect of a new dawn in Scottish football, where sporting integrity took primacy and clubs lived within their means was very real. However, as usual the SFA couldn’t miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

The truth is that Scottish football is in the state it is in, not because Rangers died but because those with the power and mandate to effect the prognosis sat back and did nothing. I am sure that they believe that ‘time heals all wounds’ and that the longer this injustice is allowed to stand the more likely it will be accepted by the man in the street. No doubt the authorities feel it is in the national interest to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’. However I cannot accept this. I believe that it is vital that we are able to face up to reality so we can move on for the benefit of all football supporters.

Scottish football is at a crossroads right now, I think we all feel it. Rampant corruption has become so mainstream that many of our fellow supporters have began to accept this as the norm. However, it just doesn’t sit right with me and I suspect that many regular contributors and readers of this blog feel likewise.

We have quite lost our way and we live in a society which spends vast amounts of money paying people like Jack Irvine to ensure that we stay lost. The mainstream media treat us like little imbeciles and demand that we conform to their assumed ‘professional superiority’. The PR machine plays up to our stereotypes and feeds our fantasies while the poorest people pay to swallow their poisonous propaganda and relentless trivia.

So what can we do ? Clearly, battering out a few blog posts and strongly worded letters to the various authorities involved has been rewarded by the square root of FA.

How can we make this an opportunity for growth rather than contributing to the destruction of Scottish football ? It is not good enough to tear down a system unless we have a better system to replace it. However, I believe that it is not the system itself which is broken. It is that those charged with administering the system are hopelessly corrupted, hugely conflicted and unable to apply their rules without fear or favour.

By their incapacity and inaction (wilful or otherwise) the SFA have facilitated a motley crew of various spivs, chancers and con-artists to glean the last few meagre pickings from the bones of the emaciated loyal supporters of this new club purporting to be the once mighty Rangers. They have permitted these ne’er-do-wells to collectively appropriate many tens of millions of pounds from the Rangers fans, the creditors and the public purse. They have already allowed this corporate malignancy to spread to a new host, ‘The Rangers’, and the absence of ‘moral hazard’ makes it more likely that the disease will continue to spread.

Benjamin Franklin once said, “‘Nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”

Someone else once said, “The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it’s just sort of a tired feeling.”

I sense that we are all beginning to get tired of this. It is time to stand together, all football fans, face the facts and direct our anger against the officers of the SFA who have allowed this sham to develop into a catastrophe.

I have no doubt that my humble opinions expressed here will raise the ire of many deluded souls. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that the only people who get mad at you for speaking the truth are those that are living a lie.

RIP Big Man.

 

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3,959 Comments so far

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Lord WobblyPosted on7:53 pm - Sep 6, 2013


jean7brodie says:
September 6, 2013 at 3:07 pm
32 2 Rate This
I know the dishes need to be washed, the ironing done and the dinner made but I just can’t tear myself away from this forum and all the erudite contributers. Many thanks to you all and to HP
for his fantastic post
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just as long as you’ve chilled the beer and warmed the slippers 😀

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TSFMPosted on8:00 pm - Sep 6, 2013


We received this recording yesterday. It is of the Jim Spence comments on SS the other evening.

The actual comment is at around 3m10s but listen to the first three minutes for context. The clip is the entire discussion on the TRFC boardroom changes, topped an tailed to exclude other discussion items.

https://soundcloud.com/xassdguocvrx/jim-spence-sportsoundedit

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ecobhoyPosted on8:01 pm - Sep 6, 2013


mirrenman says:
September 6, 2013 at 7:34 pm

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 14m
Follow the money, have a look at who really owns the club, who might have a claim and the amount of ‘verbals’.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/166093927/RFCL-Board-Minutes-31-October-2012
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The bonnet has been lifted – let’s hope it isn’t a Hillman Imp 🙂

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ecobhoyPosted on8:06 pm - Sep 6, 2013


RyanGosling says:
September 6, 2013 at 7:49 pm
ecobhoy says:
September 6, 2013 at 7:40 pm
=================
Eco I can’t speak for Blu but I imagine he used the 500 million term ironically, as I did.
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I don’t see any ‘irony’ in the comment and in a post calling for facts and evidence perhaps it is slightly unwise to attempt irony especially if you fail to carry it off.

Still good try but I remain unconvinced 😆

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ecobhoyPosted on8:09 pm - Sep 6, 2013


beatipacificiscotia says:
September 6, 2013 at 7:41 pm
mirrenman says:
September 6, 2013 at 7:34 pm

Read section 8 re: Deed of Novation – the transfer of obligations from Sevco 5088 to the Company:
“The Company acknowledged this deed could not currently be located and a new draft was tabled at the meeting for approval and ratification”. That will take a bit of explaining, and I’d like to hear that explanation.
=====================================================

The heart of the matter ❗ And I have a wee feeling that CW might have the original deed 🙄

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pau1mart1nPosted on8:12 pm - Sep 6, 2013


hmmm, I wonder if the “oral consent” was recorded by anyone……………….

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ecobhoyPosted on8:14 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Tailothebank says:
September 6, 2013 at 6:51 pm

Time for some big boys to emerge!
============================================

Oh No – please not the West of Scotland Boys with Ally in the van 🙁

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on8:14 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Fair enough Eco – to clarify, I was being ironic in the sense that I think it was Charles Green that said there were 500 million Rangers fans worldwide and its not exactly a realistic claim. Hence I was mischief making when quoting it. I’m sure Blu will get back to you on his own behalf.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on8:20 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Lord Wobbly says:
September 6, 2013 at 7:53 pm

You havin a laugh!!!! The chilled beers and warm slippers are ready for me before I sign in 😉

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MacbraynePosted on8:24 pm - Sep 6, 2013


29 May 2012
A date that will live in “What’s in it for me”
A Board Meeting of the sole director of the Company (TRFC)
Charles Alexander Green -a quorum of one – meets with himself !
I am sure the Minutes are accurate

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ecobhoyPosted on8:28 pm - Sep 6, 2013


CharlotteFakes is going dark this weekend ❗

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 2h
CharlotteFakes will cease to exist via Twitter and email this weekend therefore no further submissions can be accepted. #WithRegrets

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 1h
However I wouldn’t dare dream of leaving without giving you all an insight into the past 12 months in the most glorious of detail.

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 1h
So who is going to potentially benefit when I walk away? 9. Neil Doncaster 100 times over.

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 1h
So who is going to potentially benefit when I walk away? 8. Jack Irvine especially so if HMRC have taken further interest in him.

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 1h
So who is going to potentially benefit when I walk away? 7. All associated with Worthington and Jerome including Doug ‘Underhand’ Ware

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 1h
So who is going to potentially benefit when I walk away? 6. Ally McCoist (Initial plans to sack may not see fruition).

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 2h
So who is going to potentially benefit when I walk away? 5. Charles Green . Pinsent recommended to the SFO no futher action for all. #Phew

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 2h
So who is going to potentially benefit when I walk away? 4. Cenkos, McColl, Murrays and others behind the current requisitioning.

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 2h
So who is going to potentially benefit when I walk away? 3. Aidan Earley and Kevin ‘Watch Your Pension’ Sykes.

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 2h
So who is going to potentially benefit when I walk away? 2. Imran Ahmad – They guy who supplied Craig Whyte with the 5 way agreement.

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 2h
So who is going to potentially benefit when I walk away? 1. Craig Whyte – He will have a much better chance of settlement if I’m not around

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ecobhoyPosted on8:31 pm - Sep 6, 2013


RyanGosling says:
September 6, 2013 at 8:14 pm

Fair enough Eco – to clarify, I was being ironic in the sense that I think it was Charles Green that said there were 500 million Rangers fans worldwide and its not exactly a realistic claim. Hence I was mischief making when quoting it. I’m sure Blu will get back to you on his own behalf.
===========================================================
Not really interested – you both stated something as fact and now when challenged on it we get the deflection, smoke and mirrors as per usual.

If you want truth and evidence then qualify outrageous statements when you make them and not afterwards – it really is that simple.

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ecobhoyPosted on8:36 pm - Sep 6, 2013


pau1mart1n says:
September 6, 2013 at 8:12 pm

hmmm, I wonder if the “oral consent” was recorded by anyone……
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I would imagine that the Rangers video director Brian Stockbridge will have captured it although I doubt if the footage can be shown even on Rangers TV before the watershed 😉

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justshatered

justshateredPosted on8:39 pm - Sep 6, 2013


So this board meeting took place on 31/10/2012 and at this meeting Jim Traynor is discussed for hosting a media show for ‘The Rangers’.
A full two months before he jumps ship from the BBC to ‘The Rangers’.
It is no wonder that a lot of fans mistrust the Scottish media when a man is allowed to host a talk show that belittles valid arguments, stunts debates, and performs u-turns on his previous position only for him them to end up in the middle of the biggest sporting shambles ever to unfold in Britain.

The Scottish football fans, and indeed public, really do deserve a better media than this.

Will anyone within the media take up this challenge thrown down in the wake of Jim Spence’s comments?
Well Graham Speirs yesterday described Celtic as ‘Scotland’s most successful club’ in an article and while ‘The Rangers’ were not mentioned the intention of that statement is clear but it seems to have passed with little scrutiny.
Perhaps if two or three so called journalist, from different papers, write stories calling ‘The Rangers’ exactly what they are then perhaps the horde would not know who to intimidate.

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HirsutePursuitPosted on8:43 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Billy Boyce says:
September 6, 2013 at 5:55 pm
10 1 Rate This

blackjacque says:
September 6, 2013 at 5:05 pm

What did the original share certificate in rfc say? Does anyone have a copy?
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http://i43.tinypic.com/2dsnvus.jpg
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If you’re interested, here is the original Certificate of Incorporation & Articles of Association
http://www.scribd.com/doc/148828922/Rangers-FC-Memorandum-and-Articles-of-Association

Don’t show the top of page 8 to Jim Spence. He’ll only get himself into more trouble. 😀

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arabest1Posted on8:56 pm - Sep 6, 2013


TSFM says:
September 6, 2013 at 8:00 pm
2 0 Rate This

We received this recording yesterday. It is of the Jim Spence comments on SS the other evening.

The actual comment is at around 3m10s but listen to the first three minutes for context. The clip is the entire discussion on the TRFC boardroom changes, topped an tailed to exclude other discussion items.

https://soundcloud.com/xassdguocvrx/jim-spence-sportsoundedit
————————————–

Nothing remotely controversial, in fact I felt Spency took care to cushion the sensibilities of the sevconians.

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Tif FinnPosted on9:12 pm - Sep 6, 2013


HirsutePursuit says:
September 6, 2013 at 8:43 pm

======================

In short, it changed legal entities.

The business which had been set up as a members club decided to become a limited company. There are several reasons for doing this, it is a perfectly legitimate and normal thing to do. It could be to protect it’s shareholders and “limit” their liability to the extent of their shareholding. It could be to raise funds by selling off part of the business, their “share” and get new money in.

It happens all the time, sole proprietors, partnerships, whatever, become a limited company. The important point though is that it is the same business. Still has the same assets, still has the same contracts, debts etc. In footballing terms the important thing is that it carries on as the same business playing in the league and taking forward anything they have won. The same history if you will.

The private limited company can later float on the stock exchange. However the main thing is it is, again, the same business. Same assets, same debts, same creditors, same history.

There is a direct and clear audit trail for the business which is a football team starting as a members club, becoming a limited company, becoming a PLC. Carrying it’s history throughout. There is no way anyone could claim that continuation without accepting it is the same business. It is just nonsensical.

So when that PLC is liquidated it is that business which is liquidated. The particular type of entity it happened to be at the time is really irrelevant. It could have been a private members club a limited company a PLC an LLP an LLC it really would not have mattered on jot.

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ForresDeePosted on9:20 pm - Sep 6, 2013


After my morose contribution earlier, I’m feeling better.

Charlotte has dropped a big one, a one man board meeting that novated the assets over to Sevco Scotland from Sevco 5088. With no minutes taken this should have everyone running for the hills and the SFO / Police Scotland / City of London Police making an appearance, IF the Craig Whyte / Worthington claim is a valid one. I, however, won’t hold my breath on that one.

And then Jim Spence tweeted this;

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 1h
@bhoybarca she may be an Auntie but on this occasion i think we’ll find she has some manly attributes in her nether regions.

Could the statement on rangers website have stirred them all into action and finally pushed the Beeb over the edge?

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Tif FinnPosted on9:30 pm - Sep 6, 2013


ForresDee says:
September 6, 2013 at 9:20 pm

The duty of a board of directors is to act in the interests of all of the shareholders if I remember correctly.

Are there any shareholder who can reasonably say that they were disadvantaged by the move.

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ForresDeePosted on9:34 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Tif Finn says:
September 6, 2013 at 9:30 pm

The shareholders of Sevco 5088 might think differently if their voting rights had been removed without consent before the novation.

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Tif FinnPosted on9:36 pm - Sep 6, 2013


ForresDee says:
September 6, 2013 at 9:34 pm

Differently to what.

I said “The duty of a board of directors is to act in the interests of all of the shareholders if I remember correctly.”

Do you disagree.

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ForresDeePosted on9:43 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Tif Finn says:
September 6, 2013 at 9:36 pm

Not at all, I just think the shareholders of Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland might have different ideas about wether the novation was in the best interests of ALL the shareholders of each company.

“You are Sevco” Charles Green to Craig Whyte, now whether Craig was actually a shareholder is the important question!

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Tif FinnPosted on9:51 pm - Sep 6, 2013


ForresDee says:
September 6, 2013 at 9:43 pm

Hence my question.

“Are there any shareholder who can reasonably say that they were disadvantaged by the move.”

I’m really not understanding which part of my post you disagree with.

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neepheidPosted on9:54 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Answers.com > Wiki Answers > Categories > Law & Legal Issues > Property Law > Deeds and Ownership > What is a Deed of Novation?
What is a Deed of Novation?
In: Deeds and Ownership [Edit categories]
Answer:
A Deed of Novation is used where one party transfers its rights and obligations under a contract to another party. A novation usually happens when the seller of a business transfers the contracts with his customers to the buyer. The consent of all three parties – the transferee, the transferor and the other contracting party – is required to effect the novation.

I’ve copied the above from WikiAnswers. If the answer is accurate, then it would seem that there must have been at least 3 copies of the original deed, one for Sevco Scotland, one for D&P, and one for Sevco588. And that excludes solicitors’ copies. So to me it beggars belief that the original deed couldn’t be found. To me that means that there was no deed of novation. Which is really good news for Craig Whyte, whose c;laim that the switch of the acquisition to Sevco Scotland was invalid is suddenly looking pretty strong.

And shouldn’t a deed be properly witnessed to be valid? I’ve always thought so, but maybe some legal expert can help on that one.

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ForresDeePosted on9:58 pm - Sep 6, 2013


The only people who can answer to that question are those currently involved in the shenanigans at Ibrox, or those behind the Worthington LBC.

The rest of us might never get to know!

So, I’m really not understanding which part of ‘IF’ in my post that your missing.

Edit: I’m not getting drawn into anymore tit for tat on the subject.

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Tif FinnPosted on10:06 pm - Sep 6, 2013


ForresDee says:
September 6, 2013 at 9:58 pm

“tit for tat”

Are you having a laugh. I made a perfectly reasonable and accurate post as far as I can see. Which contained my understanding of the duties of a board of directors and a reasonable question with regard who might have felt they did not undertake those duties in a proper manner.

So, not “tit for tat” I ask again “Are there any shareholder who can reasonably say that they were disadvantaged by the move.”

If no-one knows the answer then saying so is a perfectly reasonable response.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:07 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 3m

RIFC PLC minutes 13 Feb 2013 Orlit, Hearts, Stadium, Chairman and Puggies amongst the highlights. http://www.scribd.com/doc/166133137

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phill450Posted on10:13 pm - Sep 6, 2013


I wonder if we’re about to get the sometime hinted at ‘document dump’ from Charlotte?

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:14 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 5m

Re last meeting and minutes – same old. Payments made on verbal promises. We’ll come back to this later (Deloitte Forensics).

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ecobhoyPosted on10:18 pm - Sep 6, 2013


With regard to the shareholding – it is my understanding at the time according to Companies House that Green was the sole shareholder in Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland.

So doesn’t matter what he did it would be in his interest. However we have the old conundrum over Sevco 5088 as to whether Whyte and possibly Earley were shareholders. All boils down to what documentation they have.

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ForresDeePosted on10:21 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Tif Finn says:
September 6, 2013 at 10:06 pm

I think you’ll find that I already said that, I even questioned the claim in my first post. That is due to the fact that I believe no-one that posts here knows the truth about whether the claim is valid.

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Tif FinnPosted on10:22 pm - Sep 6, 2013


ecobhoy says:
September 6, 2013 at 10:18 pm

Thank you.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on10:22 pm - Sep 6, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 6, 2013 at 10:07 pm

Minute taker? doesn’t know difference between ‘discrete’ and ‘discreet’ 😳 Sorry, old habits die hard.

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redlichtiePosted on10:32 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Board meeting of TRFC 31 Oct 2012 :

“5.2 ……The directors of Sevco 5088 had established the company….”

Directors? Green + Whyte + Earley? Were Whyte & Earley also amongst the investors transferred across? If not what was the consideration for them transferring across Sevco 5088’s rights?

Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.

PS Sorry ecobhoy, was checking my own post out while you were posting yours!

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phill450Posted on10:32 pm - Sep 6, 2013


To remove a director from a company is as simple as filling out a TM01 form, it only needs one authourised director to sign it.

WebCHeck is a bit more more stringent, but how likely is it for a brand new company to have signed up to this?

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borussiabeefburgPosted on10:32 pm - Sep 6, 2013


jean7brodie says:
September 6, 2013 at 10:22 pm

Minute taker? doesn’t know difference between ‘discrete’ and ‘discreet’ 😳 Sorry, old habits die hard.

+++++

Aye, while we’re at it, the minute taker got the old kit supplier wrong: unbro?

Missed out an ‘H’! 😀

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ecobhoyPosted on10:43 pm - Sep 6, 2013


redlichtie says:
September 6, 2013 at 10:32 pm

Board meeting of TRFC 31 Oct 2012 :

“5.2 ……The directors of Sevco 5088 had established the company….”

Directors? Green + Whyte + Earley? Were Whyte & Earley also amongst the investors transferred across? If not what was the consideration for them transferring across Sevco 5088′s rights?
===================================================================
Yea but up until Dec 2012/Jan 2013 the only director for Sevco 5088 on Companies House was Green. He was also the subscribing shareholder for the company from incorporation in March 2012 and the only shareholder shown in Companies House records.

Not to say that there aren’t others but they have never been recorded by Companies House – again the Annual Return for this company has been overdue since 26/04/2013.

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scapaflow

scapaflowPosted on10:48 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Paging Corsica Charity, paging Corsica charity

From Feb board meeting

“Matchday income

a friendly home and away match is forecast this financial year. The CEO reported that a friendly with Manchester United was set for May. Given this, match day income is expected to be on budget.”

from Huffington Post match report

“Money raised from the match and also a gala dinner that evening will be donated to the Rangers Charity Foundation and UNICEF.”

How, pray, does income for the RCF wind up in a cash flow forecast for RIFC PLC?

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ecobhoyPosted on10:53 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Money no object 😯

9.1 The CEO mentioned the fact that the first team players were asking for a bonus payable if Rangers won the division. The players had asked for £5k of shares each. This was discussed by the Board and approved.

The way things were going Green probably thought they wouldn’t need to pay-out. Was Ally the only punter in Ibrox not on a bonus for winning the Division ❓

And Walter sends his apologies to the meeting of the Board that knifed Malcolm Murray – och well I suppose you’ve got to make sure you don’t tramp through shit when wearing the brown brogues. Loyalty most certainly seems to be in serious short supply at Ibrox. Hope there are enough lifeboats when ‘Abandon Ship’ is signalled and it’s every spiv and swag bag for themself.

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scapaflow

scapaflowPosted on10:56 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Those fine upstanding chaps at FF are complaining about the media not following up on Charlotte the Harlot’s leaks , priceless, absolutely bloody priceless. Is this what they mean by “jumping the shark”?

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ecobhoyPosted on10:57 pm - Sep 6, 2013


scapaflow says:
September 6, 2013 at 10:48 pm

Paging Corsica Charity, paging Corsica charity
From Feb board meeting
“Matchday income

a friendly home and away match is forecast this financial year. The CEO reported that a friendly with Manchester United was set for May. Given this, match day income is expected to be on budget.”

from Huffington Post match report

“Money raised from the match and also a gala dinner that evening will be donated to the Rangers Charity Foundation and UNICEF.”

How, pray, does income for the RCF wind up in a cash flow forecast for RIFC PLC?
===============================================================
Well spotted – old habits die hard obviously 👿

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ecobhoyPosted on11:02 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 1m

@Greetinfaced1 @Reckoner1888 Mather forked out for 900,000 shares at £0.99 per share and was allocated a further 900,000 at £0.01 per share.
==================================================================
And yet in his BIG Herald PR puff the other day he said his shareholding was around £1 million.

Looks as though Mather needs to hang on a bit longer to make any money out of his shares – och but he’s in it for the long haul of course – silly me 🙄

Wonder if the Bears know he got almost 1 million shares at 1p each when they were paying 70p a time?

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on11:03 pm - Sep 6, 2013


I can’t think of anyone I’ve spoken to that isn’t aware of Charlotte Fakes tweets. Does it really matter that the MSM haven’t picked it up? Obviously that would have brought it to a wider audience and possibly have given it more credibility in the eyes of some, but those who care already know.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on11:22 pm - Sep 6, 2013


RyanGosling says:
September 6, 2013 at 11:03 pm

Does it really matter that the MSM haven’t picked it up?
————————————————————
Are you havin a laugh now?

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Tif FinnPosted on11:24 pm - Sep 6, 2013


RyanGosling says:
September 6, 2013 at 11:03 pm

You really think it’s OK for the media in Scotland to ignore a massive scandal because ” those who care already know.”

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on11:27 pm - Sep 6, 2013


I’m seriously not Jean – I’m not arguing that its pretty weird and incompetent that none of them have picked it up, I’m just saying is it really all that important in the grand scheme of things, when nobody assigns much credibility to newspapers etc. any more? I can think of a million stories, football and beyond, where I’ve read the papers and known beyond doubt that they are completely inaccurate, and most people feel the same. So all I’m saying is that we get annoyed when they don’t pick things up but I don’t think we should really overstate their importance. Do you disagree?

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ecobhoyPosted on11:33 pm - Sep 6, 2013


RyanGosling says:
September 6, 2013 at 11:27 pm

I’m seriously not Jean – I’m not arguing that its pretty weird and incompetent that none of them have picked it up, I’m just saying is it really all that important in the grand scheme of things, when nobody assigns much credibility to newspapers etc. any more? I can think of a million stories, football and beyond, where I’ve read the papers and known beyond doubt that they are completely inaccurate, and most people feel the same. So all I’m saying is that we get annoyed when they don’t pick things up but I don’t think we should really overstate their importance. Do you disagree?
===================================================
As a man who goes in for facts and evidence let me point out that the viewing figures for the CF docs range from a few thousand each to I think the highest I have seen is 15k.

The Sun and Record alone even on their death beds still sell 500,000 papers a day. Add all the other papers and all the radio and TV and you think it doesn’t matter that the SMSM isn’t carrying the stories.

I would suggest a reality check is in order.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on11:34 pm - Sep 6, 2013


RyanGosling says:
September 6, 2013 at 11:27 pm

Do you disagree?

—————————————————
Yes.
Are you havin a laugh again?

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on11:36 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Tif Finn – let me be clear, I’m not saying I think its OK, I’m asking is it that important? And I mean specifically – is it that important, in the context of the Charlotte Fakes stuff, which is mainly of interest to people with a keen interest so to speak? I’m happy to have my mind changed on this btw.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:38 pm - Sep 6, 2013


jean7brodie says:
September 6, 2013 at 11:34 pm
RyanGosling says:
September 6, 2013 at 11:27 pm

Do you disagree?
—————————————————
Yes. Are you havin a laugh again?
====================================
He’ll come back and claim he’s doing irony or being mischievous again.

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Tif FinnPosted on11:41 pm - Sep 6, 2013


RyanGosling says:
September 6, 2013 at 11:36 pm

Yes it’s important for the media to report a national disgrace.

To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on11:43 pm - Sep 6, 2013


Eco – I’ll ignore your second post as I think it was beneath you and respond to your first one. I posted a genuine question, not necessarily my viewpoint, more looking to see how people felt about it, although I was definitely leaning more towards the “its not that important” side. In light of the stats you posted then yes, I agree, it is very important that it is / should have been picked up. I stand corrected.

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on11:46 pm - Sep 6, 2013


And to follow up Tif Finn – I’m honestly not trying to be ridiculous, I suppose I meant “important” in terms of the difference it would make. And as stated above – I didn’t realise the figures, so yeah it was a daft thing to say in hindsight. But hey, every day’s a school day.

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TSFMPosted on11:46 pm - Sep 6, 2013


ecobhoy says:

September 6, 2013 at 11:33 pm

As a man who goes in for facts and evidence let me point out that the viewing figures for the CF docs range from a few thousand each to I think the highest I have seen is 15k.

The Sun and Record alone even on their death beds still sell 500,000 papers a day. Add all the other papers and all the radio and TV and you think it doesn’t matter that the SMSM isn’t carrying the stories.

I would suggest a reality check is in order.
__________________________________________________________

Fair and realistic point SB, although I don’t think the comparison is so absurd. CtH’s reach is much greater than her number of downloads due to her reach into sites like this one where we typically have 30000 page views per day. Added to other football sites, CtH’s public profile is pretty high. Hard to quantify of course, but I’d be amazed if many of the tabloid sports readership HADN’T been aware of her.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on11:48 pm - Sep 6, 2013


RyanGosling says:
September 6, 2013 at 11:43 pm

“If the structure does not permit dialogue the structure must be changed”
― Paulo Freire

Check Paulo out Ryan and read ‘Pedagogy of the Oppressed’. You’ll learn a lot from it.

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Tif FinnPosted on12:01 am - Sep 7, 2013


To suggest that the media should not report a story because most people who are interested probably already know is ludicrous.

Ludicrous to the point of insulting the intelligence.

Newspapers report stories other newspapers have broken all of the time. Someone must be first, does that really preclude everyone else reporting it. Radio and TV then discuss those stories all of the time. Every phone in on the radio is based on stories already reported somewhere.

So to suggest that the media should not report a story because it has already appeared on a twittter feed is quite frankly preposterous.

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on12:04 am - Sep 7, 2013


Jean – that’s kind of what I was getting at. The MSM (outside of comments sections) doesn’t allow dialogue. Forums such as this and Twitter do. Hence my original question. And TSFM kind of summed up what I was getting at more, in that Charlotte’s reach was beyond just the Twitter feed. But I don’t want to labour the point and clog up the forum any more – I’ll respond to anything more directed at me on this but won’t raise anything more as I believe I’ve now said my piece – posed a question, had better information provided to me, agreed with it to a major extent.

An underlying point though is that MSM rules / laws, even excusing incompetency, mean that we’ll never get the info from the MSM that we got from Charlotte. And from here, and loads of other forums. People can draw their own conclusions as to what has the most value, but even as a Rangers fan joining in what is widely held among “ra peepil” (to use a term from here!) to be a bit of a Celtic forum, I log on here during each day to get a handle on what’s happening in the Rangers world, not the Daily Record or the Sun. And not Rangers Media, which unfortunately I find that my IQ is great enough that I find it hard to comprehend.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on12:07 am - Sep 7, 2013


TSFM says:
September 6, 2013 at 11:46 pm
I don’t really understand your point ❓ We know the tabloids know about ‘her’ it’s just that they haven’t reported on ‘her’.

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on12:09 am - Sep 7, 2013


Tif – last time, otherwise I’ll get accused of trolling for posting too much – I didn’t say they shouldn’t report it, I asked how important it was in the grand scheme of things that they did. TSFM kind of backed up a bit of my point. And I accepted the facts provided that given readership stats etc. then yes it is very important that its reported by the MSM.

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Reilly1926Posted on12:22 am - Sep 7, 2013


Tif Finn says:
September 7, 2013 at 12:01 am
——————
Honest people like Jim Spence, Stuart Cosgrove, Tam Cowan and to a lesser extent Graham Spiers are looked upon by the SMSM as mavericks. They would dearly love to say what these guys do but they realise that commercially they can’t.

Only today we read that The Scottish Sun has had a fall of 12% in sales. Any truthful journo reporting on the Sevco situation would see this deterioration double.

We are p.ssing against the wind in hoping that there will be turnaround in their ethics. It won’t happen.

They see their stance being for the greater good.

I don’t.

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on12:32 am - Sep 7, 2013


Tif, you’re not being overly reasonable. You’re quoting early things I said when I later agreed I’d been proved wrong, and I’m not sure for what purpose. Can we let it go please? Lets keep it all friendly. Suggesting I delete my account because you disagree with an honest question and ignoring subsequent posts isn’t in very good spirit.

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on12:45 am - Sep 7, 2013


Yes, but then you’ll have insulted me.

My original post wasn’t a contention, it was question, to correct your earlier post.

Rather than bogging the rest of the forum down in this, may I suggest we carry it on if you wish via private message (I haven’t tried to do that previously on this forum so if you know how to then I welcome your conversation). Otherwise, I welcome correction to my posts and I’m happy to take the points of posters who can lead me to a more enlightened viewpoint, but I don’t care to be insulted on a frequent basis despite being nothing but courteous.

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Tif FinnPosted on12:53 am - Sep 7, 2013


Fair do’s, people can read the posts and decide what they think.

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briggsbhoyPosted on1:35 am - Sep 7, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 6, 2013 at 3:33 pm

Shameful is all I can say, they know no remorse

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Humble PiePosted on1:41 am - Sep 7, 2013


Regarding your suggested transfer of my ramblings to Twitter, can I point out how hard it is to express an opinion with a 140 character limi

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on4:03 am - Sep 7, 2013


MSM shock: McCoist gets a literary kicking ! 🙂
===================================
Interesting, [& brave], article from Glenn Gibbons today.
An illuminating piece on Scotland caps…
and a pop at McCoist / TRFC.

“…The former striker’s readiness with the impulsive, unconsidered response may be rooted in his history as a media-friendly figure…Even so, he has been steadily compiling what might be called a portfolio of outbursts, some of them grossly ill-advised and even dangerous…
the infamous “we want to know who these people are” demand in the wake of the review panel who sat to consider Rangers’ rules breaches in the wake of their entering administration…

Perhaps most seriously of all, McCoist declared himself “appalled” by the arson attack on the bus depot which housed Rangers’ new luxury coach, clearly implying that it had been carried out by rival football fans. The subsequent police investigation disclosed that the crime was not related to football…”
======================
Ooft !
I read this as indirect support / retaliation for the grief Jim Spence has suffered from the Govan mob recently. Will any other journo do likewise ?

…but get your tin hat on Glenn for the inevitable ‘incoming’ ! 🙁

http://www.scotsman.com/news/glenn-gibbons-scots-send-in-the-clowns-1-3081141

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Danish PastryPosted on7:09 am - Sep 7, 2013


Well done Belgium. Superb fans too. Scotland taking small steps to recovery under wee Gordon.

@StevieBC Great read that. A name and shame if ever I saw one.

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ollielogiePosted on8:13 am - Sep 7, 2013


Neil Patey with his finger on the pulse….what a difference 6 months makes. I particularly like the comment of ‘debt free’ (but shame free?) and the IPO monies seeing them through to the SPL (RIP)….
🙂

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21458998

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Lord WobblyPosted on8:24 am - Sep 7, 2013


Reilly1926 says:
September 7, 2013 at 12:22 am
25 3 Rate This
Tif Finn says:
September 7, 2013 at 12:01 am
——————
Honest people like Jim Spence, Stuart Cosgrove, Tam Cowan and to a lesser extent Graham Spiers
are looked upon by the SMSM as mavericks. They would dearly love to say what these guys do but they realise that commercially they can’t.
Only today we read that The Scottish Sun has had a fall of 12% in sales. Any truthful journo reporting on the Sevco situation would see this deterioration double.
We are p.ssing against the wind in hoping that there will be turnaround in their ethics. It won’t happen.
They see their stance being for the greater good.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If the likes of the tabloid hacks are continuing their stance for commercial reasons and yet they constantly see their readership drop, wouldn’t it be a good idea to try something different?

As Einstein said, it is insanity to keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

Who knows, if they tried new ways, they might even stumble across the art of journalism!

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andygraham.66Posted on8:34 am - Sep 7, 2013


In this whole sorry saga it’s Mr Patey that’s keeping Chris Graham from the position of no. 1 in the “Pundit who called it wrong the most” competition.

Mr Lindsay from the evening times currently in the bronze medal position.

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upthehoopsPosted on8:47 am - Sep 7, 2013


StevieBC says:
September 7, 2013 at 4:03 am
================================
Glenn Gibbons has never shirked from challenging the status quo of the Scottish media and how it reports on Rangers. Sadly though, the plain truth about McCoist’s comments are largely ignored by a media who basically treat ‘Coisty’ as infallible.

Gibbons also raises a very valid point about the number of Scotland caps Jimmy McGrory was awarded. McGrory’s feats remain unsurpassed to this day and at the time he achieved them at the highest level possible available to him, i.e there was no European competition at that time. Despite that, inferior players were generally picked before him for Scotland. You don’t have to be a genius to work out the reason and other Celtic players were either overlooked for selection or even booed by sections of the Scotland support right up until the early 70’s. My experience tells me some people hate to have these things pointed out to them, but they remain facts nonetheless. I remember reading an account of Jock Stein during his temporary spell in charge of Scotland in the mid 60’s. The ‘selectors’ handed him his list of players which included 12 from Rangers. Jock politely reminded them he could only pick 11 for the team.

Thankfully, the days of prejudice in player selection and booing have gone. Sadly, the only issue now is trying to find eleven decent enough players to play for Scotland.

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redlichtiePosted on8:57 am - Sep 7, 2013


andygraham.66 says:
September 7, 2013 at 8:34 am
In this whole sorry saga it’s Mr Patey that’s keeping Chris Graham from the position of no. 1 in the “Pundit who called it wrong the most” competition.
===================================================

I often wonder what Mr Patey’s peer group in the accountancy world make of his comments. To a non-accountant but someone reasonably well versed in business I have been left open-mouthed on many occasions by what seems more of a cheer-leader approach rather than a proper analysis of available information. At times he has seemed perversely at odds with the facts.

He is in effect representing his profession and to have got so much wrong with regard to this particular subject must impact on the general reputation of accountants and surely make him a less than reliable future source for the MSM.

I would also have thought that his own organisation must have serious reservations about his profile over the past few years and I wonder about his impact on their clientbase. He’s certainly not someone I would be looking to engage for serious, accurate and appropriate advice based on his Rangers statements.

Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.

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ecobhoyPosted on9:15 am - Sep 7, 2013


redlichtie says:
September 7, 2013 at 8:57 am
andygraham.66 says:
September 7, 2013 at 8:34 am
In this whole sorry saga it’s Mr Patey that’s keeping Chris Graham from the position of no. 1 in the “Pundit who called it wrong the most” competition.
===================================================
I often wonder what Mr Patey’s peer group in the accountancy world make of his comments. To a non-accountant but someone reasonably well versed in business I have been left open-mouthed on many occasions by what seems more of a cheer-leader approach rather than a proper analysis of available information. At times he has seemed perversely at odds with the facts.

He is in effect representing his profession and to have got so much wrong with regard to this particular subject must impact on the general reputation of accountants and surely make him a less than reliable future source for the MSM.

I would also have thought that his own organisation must have serious reservations about his profile over the past few years and I wonder about his impact on their clientbase. He’s certainly not someone I would be looking to engage for serious, accurate and appropriate advice based on his Rangers statements.
==============================================================
It’s funny when McMurdo spouted the PR trash that McColl’s shareholders were getting a trifle upset at his involvement with Rangers I actually thought of Patey and wondered what his employers thought of his performances and the resultant reputational damage for them.

The guy is nothing more than a total joke when what Scottish Football needs is a professional financial analyst who is at least competent but, more importantly, objective with an untinted vision 😎

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JLeeHookerPosted on9:49 am - Sep 7, 2013


Is Jim preparing to stand his groung? I do hope so.

I am Spartacus

______________________________________________________________________

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 4m
Someone just reminded me of the famous saying of Pastor Martin Niemoller. “First they came for the socialists and I did not speak out”

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ecobhoyPosted on9:51 am - Sep 7, 2013


TSFM says:
September 6, 2013 at 11:46 pm
ecobhoy says:
September 6, 2013 at 11:33 pm

As a man who goes in for facts and evidence let me point out that the viewing figures for the CF docs range from a few thousand each to I think the highest I have seen is 15k.

The Sun and Record alone even on their death beds still sell 500,000 papers a day. Add all the other papers and all the radio and TV and you think it doesn’t matter that the SMSM isn’t carrying the stories.

I would suggest a reality check is in order.
__________________________________________________________

Fair and realistic point SB, although I don’t think the comparison is so absurd. CtH’s reach is much greater than her number of downloads due to her reach into sites like this one where we typically have 30000 page views per day. Added to other football sites, CtH’s public profile is pretty high. Hard to quantify of course, but I’d be amazed if many of the tabloid HADN’T been aware of her.
=====================================================

@TSFM – I don’t know if you have confused me with SB whoever that is. However you have confused my poisition so let me make it clear. As I have previously posted on here there is no journo in Scotland not aware of CF and in fact it is required reading for most eager to see JI and JT get one in the eye and their colleagues hung-out to dry. The only people I know who are bigger gossips than journos btw are lawyers.

My point is that it was nonsensical to state that it didn’t matter if SMSM ignored CF. I take your comments about ‘reach’ beyond the CF twitter feed with blogs like this but it is a closed pool and most daily page viewers on here I would suspect are also page viewers on similar and Darkside sites so you have to be careful about extrapolating page view numbers as a viable alternative to media coverage. I think from memory that the average readership figure for a newspaper is 5 times the circulation which I shoulkd have mentioned originally as it reinforces my point.

It’s also the case that most people reading this site and similar have their minds made up on the issues involved one way or another. The SMSM opens the door to many readers who have never ever heard of CF or the ‘truth’ behind what is happening in and to Scottish Football. These are the people we desperately need to ‘educate’ and until we at least reach them and it has to be through the SMSM then the Hampden manipulators will sit safe in their castle ignoring the bampots and clatterers with a complicit and compliant media manning the outer defences.

I have slowly been coming to the realisation that perhaps the best we can achieve is to act as ‘witnesses’ to the corruption that has overtaken Scottish Football and, where possible, to investigate and lay bare what facts we can. Hopefully at some stage this will provide a bedrock of knowledge that can be used to expose the rotting Hampden edifice and the Establishment links and agenda which I am convinced not only exist but currently flourish in a state of rude health.

Believe it or not I am also more than ever convinced that we need the media to bring the whole lot crashing down and as unlikely as it may seem I think there is still some hope that a editor might step forward with the courage and morality to tackle this part of the sickness that debilitates Scotland.

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