We thought it would be good to show the audience we have had over the last few months, and to say thanks to all those who have helped to make this a thriving community in the short time we have been on the go.
A Happy New year to all from everyone at TSFM.
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The WordPress.com stats helper monkeys prepared a 2012 annual report for this blog.
Here’s an excerpt:
About 55,000 tourists visit Liechtenstein every year. This blog was viewed about 3,500,000 times in 2012. If it were Liechtenstein, it would take about 64 years for that many people to see it. Your blog had more visits than a small country in Europe!
Why restrict them to Europe ?
Is it not time we had a football equivalent to the Harlem Globetrotters ,the exhibition basketball team that combines athleticism, theater and comedy.
They are already registered as an International football club ,they have 500 million fans
around the globe and know how to contact Mr Custard the blue nose clown.
Who needs the SPL-the EPL or the CL when you can play in Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay ,Mexico,
the USA, Canada, Japan, Korea, Australia,NZ , HK, Singapore , Russia , Italy,Germany , Spain
and a special trip to Wembley to play an EPL select .
In fact who needs Mr Custard all Green needs is a blue nose and another name change to the Govan Globetrotters
sorry should read
I have changed my tune
jonnyod @ 20:04
I agree with you in some ways
However, we need someone in the MSM to start calling him out, and highlighting his ludicrous and often contradictory statements
For clarification
While most on here say its not the same club Mr Charles is correct in trumpeting the ECA recognising the new being the same as the old.
However as Associate members they have no voting rights nor can their reps sit on any committies.
Therefore they can attend all the meetings they want but weld no power within the organisation.
At present due to Scotland’s Uefa Rankings we have two Ordinary members. If we slip 3 or more places then it will go down to one.
Given the two year cycle of membership it will be some time before a T’Rangers team based in Scotland would get to become and Orinary member.
As for people willing to pay the air fares and hotel bills of the richest club in the universe with the worlds largest fan base then thats just more pure Colin Nish.
You think he and Traynor would have more important things to be getting on with as opposed to sitting their thinking what BS wind ups they can issue day to day.
http://www.ecaeurope.com/about-eca/eca-membership/
With a total of 207 Member Clubs, ECA has followed the trend of continued growth over the last years positioning itself as a strong representative body on the European football landscape.
ECA’s 207 Member Clubs in the 2012/13 season are drawn from all 53 UEFA National Associations. There are 103 Ordinary Members and 104 Associated Members.
In principle, and as set out by the ECA Organisational Regulations, an ECA Membership Cycle lasts two years. However, the Executive Board proposed to the General Assembly in February 2011 to extend the current ECA Membership Cycle (2010-12) by one year, until the end of the season 2012/13. The reason for this proposal was to harmonise the ECA Cycle with the UEFA Committees Cycle, which would allow for consistency between the ECA Executive Board Cycle and ECA representation on UEFA Committees. The extension only applies to the current cycle. As from the season 2013/14, the ECA Membership Cycle will again cover 2 years as usual. This proposal was unanimously approved by the General Assembly
ORDINARY MEMBERS
The precise number of ECA Ordinary Member Clubs from each member association is established every two years at the end of the UEFA season on the basis of the official UEFA Country Ranking. For the current ECA Membership Cycle (2010-13*), the nomination of Ordinary Members was based on the UEFA Country Ranking 2010.
•Associations ranked 1-3: 5 Ordinary Member Clubs
•Associations ranked 4-6: 4 Ordinary Member Clubs
•Associations ranked 7-15: 3 Ordinary Member Clubs
•Associations ranked 16-26: 2 Ordinary Member Clubs
•Associations ranked 27-53: 1 Ordinary Member Clubs
It is to be noted that only ordinary members have a voting right in the ECA General Assembly. Furthermore, only club representatives from ECA Ordinary Member Clubs can stand for election for the ECA Executive Board.
* The current ECA Membership Cycle exceptionally lasts until the end of the season 2012/13.
ASSOCIATE MEMBERS
ECA offers Associated Membership to:
•Founding members and clubs who have been Ordinary Member during an earlier cycle;
•Clubs who have won the UEFA Champions League (or former European Club Champions Cup) since its first season in 1955/56;
•Clubs who are qualified for the Group Stage of the UEFA Champions League in a given season (until the end of the cycle only).
Furthermore, clubs who fulfil the sporting, financial, legal and organisational criteria as set out in the ECA Membership Policy can apply for ECA Associated Membership.
Attendance Update
Team Pld Difference from last year average
Aberdeen 11 +1,500
Airdrie United 10 +159
Albion Rovers 9 -113
Alloa Athletic 10 -154
Annan Athletic 9 +431
Arbroath 9 -110
Ayr United 10 -411
Berwick Rangers 9 +504
Brechin City 9 +77
Celtic 10 -8,831
Clyde 8 +776
Cowdenbeath 9 +358
Dumbarton 7 +291
Dundee 10 +2,678
Dundee United 11 +680
Dunfermline Athletic 9 -687
East Fife 9 -79
East Stirlingshire 10 +293
Elgin City 9 +447
Falkirk 8 +53
Forfar Athletic 9 +60
Hamilton Academical 8 -376
Heart of Midlothian 11 +264
Hibernian 11 +989
Inverness C T 11 -290
Kilmarnock 11 -548
Livingston 8 -363
Montrose 10 +397
Morton 10 +232
Motherwell 11 -944
Partick Thistle 9 +882
Peterhead 10 +377
Queen of the South 10 +38
Queens Park 9 +3,356
Raith Rovers 10 -2
The Rangers 9 +787
Ross County 9 +1,467
St Johnstone 11 -231
St Mirren 11 +132
Stenhousemuir 9 -51
Stirling Albion 9 +354
Stranraer 10 +139
Looks reasonably healthy throughout the leagues to me, with a couple of exceptions. This is league games only, of course.
paulmac2 says:
Friday, January 11, 2013 at 19:31
Question: ‘where can you go?’…was asked..
‘there are options…not many’…
——
There are options? Really?
Can anybody at all hazard an educated guess as to what those options could be? The Harlem Globetrotters plan sounds like the only option to me!
Ah well, I’m glad Mr Green has started up with the tripe again – it’s always fun trying to guess what manner of hilarious guff will emanate from his chosen bodily-orifice-of-the-day next.
The pure fantasies paraded as established fact are so hallucinogenically surreal that you keep expecting him to add “Sorry … did I just say that out loud?”.
I’m putting a quid on Tom English being first to totally ridicule him. I’d say Andrew Smith, but he doesn’t get a big enough column in SoS to do the job properly.
(As for the Bears … how far does Mr Green have to stretch their faith with – alleged – nonsense, broken promises and lies until they find the wit to realise he’s at it? Perhaps he really is a strongly Celtic-minded chap, and his ultimate goal is to make the WATP look as stupid and gullible at the end of the piece as humanly possible. I predict that when this all pans out the WATP will either be totally crushed with embarrassment or there will be riots.)
I’m fed up hearing the people who think they are complaining that they have been cheated and that they have bought tickets for a competition that has been changed. Someone should point out to them, that they bought a season ticket that allowed them entry to an allotted number of games. As far as I can see this has not changed, nor has the timescale for their projected return to the top flight. They should all revert to the previous position of being happy to make their way through the divisions, bringing joy to all the new friends they are making en route. They should forget about reverting to their default position of being the establishment club, those days are gone.
wottpi
thanks for clarifying that for me ,on the associate members criteria is does look like sevco are indeed seen as the old ragers ,one thing though do you know what status they were last season as it states that the cycle would run till season 2013/14 ,if it was an associate member why would Aberdeen be a full member instead ,If it was a full member why would their status change mid cycle .
wottpi
sorry ignore my last post ,I should read the criteria more carefully before commenting
A quick update on progress and how your donations have been spent so far.
We have purchased two domain names, sfmonitor.org and scottishfootballmonitor.org.
We have also purchased vBulletin forum software as the general consensus on multi-threading is leading us there.
We have asked a web designer to quote for a re-brand of vBulletin and WordPress to accommodate TSFM.
We have also put a content and production plan in place to produce TSFM podcasts (initially audio only but later perhaps to add video) as a means of including more diversity of opinion.
Currently, we are investigating hosting options, with security being a priority. We have raised just under £400 (although we did refund two people who asked for their money back because they were moderated unfavourably)
🙂
So far we have spent just under two hundred quid, so we have some cash to put towards a robust hosting solution which may include audio as well as text – and it will be good to have some petty cash to deal with items like postage and other incidentals over a period of time.
The vBulletin solution may make moderation a more difficult proposition so that is a problem we would have to deal with if the forum is the way we decide to go.
More info as and when we have news.
to try and get away from Chuckles rantings…
While we are discussing reorginisation what about trying to do something about Scotland’s overall coefficient. This season the four other teams only added 1.5 points to our total.
As it is all about money, what about Celtic and SFA putting say £150k each into a pot, then set a target of each team (Celtic apart) getting minimum 3 coefficient points each which would trigger the bonus payment.
Both Celtic and the country as a whole would benefit over years with vastly improved coefficient.
Celtic would be more likely to be seeded and Scotland would rise coefficient also
In some ways a rehash on some points I made in a post earlier this week and so to recap in my humble opinion Chico has no more than the marketing,goodwill and bragging rights of the Old Rangers and by that I mean that he can;
* Sell replica shirts that Rangers wore during their 140 year History
* Invite old players back to be celebrated by the masses
* Run tours round Ibrox Stadium including the trophy room
* Continue the ethos of the Old Rangers
* Sell DVD’s of Old Rangers games played prior to August 2012
* Continue to display the old logo
* Sell anything he can come up with that the punters will buy in relation to the Old Rangers
But what he cannot and must do is
* Have a new brand Logo which is not a replica or similar to the old RFC badge
* He must display this new badge on all football strips used in current competions
* He cannot claim that his team are the continuation of the old Rangers
* He cannot claim trophies or leagues won as a continuation of the Old
* He must display the new logo outside Ibrox and Murray Park, Old may remain
I’m sorry Chuckie but your Rangers are not the same Rangers. You were a bit like a long lost relative who turned up to say fairwell to a dying cousin as they lay on their hospital bed in intensive care. Unfortunately though when you turned up out the blue the life support had been turned off and what was left was a shell, all but dead, barely functioning, brain dead like you. The did die and you were of course able to leave the hospital with the personal belongings including clothing. You have moved into the dead realtives house and carried on their work but you aint your dead realtive. The house you inherited was a bit of a mess and your having to get funding for it in the hope that you can sell it on, but thing aint happening fast enough Chuck are they?
So face up to it Charlie what you thought would be a quick kill finacially is causing you grief and I think may end up turning you to the drink.
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/40276750934/spl-viewing-figures-mid-term-report
A bit of analysis for this season’s viewing figures. Year on Year, there’s a drop of 70.2% in the viewing figures which is concerning but not unexpected. Key to it is the relegation of the SPL to Sky Sports 4. In the last 2 months of 2011, all but 1 Sky SPL game was on Sky Sports 1 (the premier channel and advertised as such). In the last 2 months of 2012, not a single one was – all were on Sky Sports 4 – the smallest, least promoted and (unless you pay more to get it) least accessible of the Sky Sports package.
You treat SPL football like it’s rubbish, is it any surprise when the figures are rubbish?
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-01-11/jessops-customer-stuck-with-500-voucher-despite-late-dash/
maybe he should get duff n phelps involved, and use the £500 to buy shares in the new jessops?
A lateral thought
Celtic have every right to claim that their progress in the CL has nothing whatever to do with a less competitive SPL
Others may claim that with less competition Cettic were able to rest players and accept the consequences of losing or drawing some league games
However
A one horse league has been forced on to Clubs this season
Far from proving a disaster
Attendances at most clubs apart from Celtic have increased over last season. The prospect of finishing second and a chance at the CL seems to be an aspiration that pulls in fans
And paradoxically
Celtic`s inconsistent league form has helped level the playing field for clubs chasing second place
And as a wee bonus
All SPL clubs have enjoyed a £250k windfall from Celtics progress to the last 16 of the CL
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Which begs a question never before discussed in the MSM
Could a one horse league dominated by Celtic actually provide more income than a two horse league?
Or
Is there an even better model where a two horse league dominated by Celtic generates even more income?
Lets face it
If TSFM bloggers and readers are capable of thinking like the average Club Board
Then
Everybody that matters in Scottish Football now know that the deid RFC were milked by Spivs
for 20yrs
They also know this new TRFC creation is so totally under the control of Spivs it will never have
the money to challenge Celtic for a very long time
As I said
A lateral thought
Richard Wilson @ 21:14
You have hit the nail on the head
Sky do absolutely nothing to promote the SPL or Scottish football in general
We are not even second class in their eyes, and although our “product” is in many ways poor, they spend more time promoting English leagues outwith the EPL which are also poor
They could, if they so wished, make our game more attractive, but for whatever reason they choose not to
Perhaps if they promoted our game with the same enthusiasm as the other English leagues, they might find the viewing figures would improve
goosygoosy @ 21:40
The Spivs though will have a massive problem on their hands, when they return to the top flight, and take on Celtic once again
If they stick to their stated intention to be financially prudent, and limit salaries to 33% of turnover, they will, in all probability be unable to compete with Celtic, and indeed will have little European success
This will not sit well with the Sevconians, who will demand that money is spent on the playing department to bring the success they demand
Charlie is then caught between a rock and a hard place
His investors will demand a return, the supporters will demand trophies
The question is, which of those will desert first – investors or supporters
Charlie may just be building up a lot of trouble for himself
campsiejoe says:
Friday, January 11, 2013 at 21:40
Richard Wilson @ 21:14
Sky do absolutely nothing to promote the SPL or Scottish football in general…they spend more time promoting English leagues outwith the EPL which are also poor
They could, if they so wished, make our game more attractive, but for whatever reason they choose not to
Perhaps if they promoted our game with the same enthusiasm as the other English leagues, they might find the viewing figures would improve
————————————————
maybe something BT might be able to exploit then?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jan/10/bt-gauntlet-sky-sports-coverage
campsiejoe says:
Friday, January 11, 2013 at 21:40
As a channel breakdown, all but one Sky SPL game this season has been on Sky Sports 4. Of the SFL games, it’s the same, albeit the one that wasn’t on 4 was on 1 (rather than 2).
They can promote the Cup properly, which is the dismaying thing. It isn’t the case that Sky can’t promote Scottish football properly just that they won’t.
The major issue is scheduling. SPL games go up against EPL games and get obliterated because (sensibly) Sky aren’t about to promote a show that is opposing it’s golden calf. It’s why the Friday nights are such a good idea (albeit one that hasn’t pulled in viewers) because the SPL needs a timeslot which avoids clashing with the EPL as that takes away the neutral viewerbase it desperately needs to claim. Friday nights are good in most European leagues so they have to be in Scotland and big games have to be scheduled then (that said, can’t imagine Strathclyde’s finest would be too happy about, say, Celtic vs Hearts on a Friday night) but also alternative times need to be trialled (Sunday 11:30) and the SPL needs to be the one to kill the 3pm Saturday sacred kick off and just put something on because, at the end of the day, someone will broadcast it.
campsiejoe says:
Friday, January 11, 2013 at 21:40
Campsie, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Sky promote the Scottish league basically as some sort of freak show (Roll up !Roll up! See grown men in skirts attempt to play football!)
I don’t get to see a lot of SPL games live, but I watched the Scottish cup game between Caley and Ross County. and could not believe how good it was – Caley in particular looked a very decent side. That is what Sky’s focus should be on, how good Scottish football is this season!
“It beggars belief that this issue was not raised by Brechin with the SFL or mentioned by at least one member of the MSM”
______________
Come on goosygoose,
How do you mean it beggars belief. Have been absent for a while?
Look what happened to Raith Rovers, to Dundee, to RTC, to Alex Thomson et. al. and you say it beggars belief.
The facts are there for all to see, intimidation is rampant. there is no protection from the football authorities, from the police, from the Scottish government, from the MSM.
Brechin probably feel they got off lucky that their Grounds are still there.
The only thing that beggars belief is the fact that nobody knows WHO PLAYED BRICHIN?
jonnyod says:
Friday, January 11, 2013 at 20:57
I understand that from 2010 they were ordinary members and given the extension to tie in with the cycles they would have continued as one until the end of this season. However the following explains their loss of Ordinary Member status.
Ordinary members of the group are required to be playing in their domestic top division and be licensed to play European football.
Rangers do not hold a UEFA club licence as a result of a break in their accounts and, having lost their top-flight status, are no longer ordinary members of the ECA, the organisation confirmed.
“Rangers FC held ordinary membership with the ECA before entering into administration and later into liquidation,” an ECA spokesperson confirmed to STV.
Senior says:
Friday, January 11, 2013 at 22:45
Come on goosygoose,
How do you mean it beggars belief. Have been absent for a while?
Look what happened to Raith Rovers, to Dundee, to RTC, to Alex Thomson et. al. and you say it beggars belief.
The facts are there for all to see, intimidation is rampant. there is no protection from the football authorities, from the police, from the Scottish government, from the MSM.
Brechin probably feel they got off lucky that their Grounds are still there.
The only thing that beggars belief is the fact that nobody knows WHO PLAYED BRICHIN?
————————————————–
Well said Senior all the authorities are ‘feart’. BRICHIN? Do you mean bricking it or BRECHIN?
Here’s a mad random suggestion regarding the above SKY TV posts.
In Ireland the league has very successfully introduced a new idea in recent years!
The season runs through the summer.
Clubs are not competing with EPL games etc, attendances have risen, well, you get the idea.
There is also the added but not insignificant factor of the weather.
Any thoughts?
Whatever happened to the safe standing debate.
I filled in the pointless SFA questionnaire and one of the comments I made was the introduction of safe standing like they have in Germany.
To those people asking who played Brechin on 28th July:
The answer, of course, is that it is same club which is currently leading the 3rd division of the SFL.
To those people who ask when Rangers ceased to be a member of the SPL:
The answer is, of course, when their SPL share was transferred to the club which is currently at the bottom of the SPL. That SPL share was transferred on 3rd August 2012.
To those people who ask when Rangers ceased to be a member of the SFA:
The answer is, of course, when their SFA membership was transferred to the club which is currently leading the 3rd division of the SFL. That SFA membership was also transferred on 3rd August 2012.
Rangers – on 28th July 2012 – still had full membership of the SFA and were registered shareholders (and therefore a full member) of the SPL.
Sevco Scotland – on 28th July 2012 – had a temporary “conditional” SFA membership thingy and (as a new club) had been granted associate membership status within the SFL.
There is absolutely no doubt – none whatsoever – that on 28th July 2012 both Rangers and Sevco Scotland existed as separate clubs.
There is absolutely no doubt – none whatsoever – that on 28th July 2012 both Rangers and Sevco Scotland were separate members of the SFA and held separate membership of separate SFA approved leagues.
Rangers, of course, had already sold their stadium, their staff and their branding on 14th June 2012 – so were in no position to play anyone by the 28th July 2012. Nevertheless, between 28th July 2012 and 3rd August 2012, both clubs co-existed as separate members of the SFA and SFA approved leagues.
To those people who ask when Rangers Football Club ceased to exist:
The answer is, of course, is 3rd August 2012.
campsiejoe says:
Friday, January 11, 2013 at 22:09
The Spivs though will have a massive problem on their hands, when they return to the top flight, and take on Celtic once again
…….
CJ
I doubt whether the current crop of Spivs will be around by the time TRFC gain promotion to the top flight.
Unfortunately I also doubt whether the next lot will be decent Bears of the type everyone would like to see in charge
Why?
Because the Spivs are doing nothing to encourage decent Bears to come forward. The decent Bears are keeping their heads down after witnessing the success of the WATP card played by Green. No doubt Coisty and the Cardigan have already got second thoughts at the extremists being encouraged for short term gain
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So it is possible Green will be succeeded by something worse
Spivs are amoral people who mercilessly exploit company law to maximise personal profit.
This means any amoral statement or behaviour is viewed largely on whether it serves the short term purpose of maximising profit for Spivs
Like
Before the very eyes of the fans Green and Stockbridge are paying themselves £360k pa for the titular office of Director of 3rd div TRFC which is wholly owned by RIFC.
If thats what they are doing publicly what other scams are being dreamed up in private?
The mind boggles at what inter company charges have already been imposed on TRFC by RIFC
One wonder what extra salary Green and Stockbridge are also drawing from RIFC?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So are the Spivs playing a blinder?
Nope
When they embarked on this WATP strategy they probably didn`t really understand the nutters they were stirring up.They thought Bomber Brown epitomised the nutters when actually he and Donald Findlay are law abiding moderates
By now the penny will have dropped
The Spivs will now be more concerned with heeping these Nutters onside until they can flee Glasgow with their TRFC profits
By now Green will know that some of these Nutters use serious violence and civil disorder to get their way
The flag protest in Belfast is a clear example of the sort of people Green has unwittingly encouraged
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So whats likely to happen when Green and Co are gone?
Worse case?
Control of TRFC falls into the hands of non scottish paramilitaries masquerading as saviours
intimidation of all and sundry gets ratcheted up several notches
Best Case?
Green manages to engineer an orderly administration and liquidation of TRFC enabling they Spivs to pass the problem to someone else
wottpi says:
Friday, January 11, 2013 at 22:46
I understand that from 2010 they were ordinary members and given the extension to tie in with the cycles they would have continued as one until the end of this season. However the following explains their loss of Ordinary Member status.
Ordinary members of the group are required to be playing in their domestic top division and be licensed to play European football.
Rangers do not hold a UEFA club licence as a result of a break in their accounts and, having lost their top-flight status, are no longer ordinary members of the ECA, the organisation confirmed.
“Rangers FC held ordinary membership with the ECA before entering into administration and later into liquidation,” an ECA spokesperson confirmed to STV.
========================================================================
Wottpi, is there a link to this quote – I can’t find it on the STV website. My RFC*-supporting friends and family have been throwing the previous ECA mistake at me for ages as proof that the authorities see Sevco as the same club, so this is perfect if I can show it’s in the news. Please let me know where it is.
More than that, if this is indeed the ECA’s view, shouldn’t someone be publicising it? After all it feels like they are all quick enough to publish when it supports the lie!!
wottpi
Cheers
As per the ECA regulations they have the opinion that Sevco 2102 are seen as a continuation of ragers 1872 ,it would be interesting though to know by what criteria Sevco have been granted associate membership .
the last paragraph ……
further more clubs that fulfil the sporting ,financial,legal and organisational criteria as set out in the ECA Membership Policy can apply for ECA associated membership .
Could this explain chuckles statement regards paying the old clubs football debts and is this the reason they were granted the membership.
ECA status still does not explain CG saying that that the ECA confirmation is gospel no matter what lawyers and the authorities say ,this to me says that lawyers and the authorities have said the opposite to what the ECA say and since the ECA are just a members club surely it’s what the lawyers and authorities that count here
nawlite says:
Friday, January 11, 2013 at 23:28
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/205975-european-clubs-body-downgrades-rangers-status-but-recognises-history/.
It comes down again to what you believe can be bought and what Duff and Duffer said they sold.
Would sally be so bothered if the last 12 months hadn’t happened and his team were in the spl and it was Queens Park in their situation? I think not.
wottpi
That is an interesting link ,did you notice the only line that was not a quote from the ECA spokesman
Funny that isn’t it
I think that in its clumsy Eurocratese, the ECA statement is a pretty fair reflection on the old club/new club duality.
Spiritually, the club survives and can claim its footballing heritage.
As an economic entity, it died. There is a new economic entity which has to prove itself through three years of accounts before it is accepted as a full member of the community.
Remember, the 3Y account test is required for a euro licence. A euro licence is required to play in the top national division. This has to be factored in to any speculative timetable for future league structure and composition.
jonnyrod
Another slant on the same story here.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-eca-and-sevco/
IMO CG and Sevco 2012 are now desperately trying to convince anyone who is interested that they still matter in the big scheme of things .I myself always knew that some club would come to the fore to fill the void left by ragers 1872 and it made sense that they would play in blue out of Ibrokes ,there was a potential fan base there to attract peepil to the deal .Most thought it would be ragers men ,me I thought there would be a middle man to put distance between the old club and the new entity ,more to throw HMRC and the internet bampots of the scent than anything else .
The crux of it all seems to be Ticketus ,the deal they entered into with a club bought for £1 in scottish football amid dropping income streams ,tv monies and a possible £60m HMRC claim hanging over them seems inconceivable to me and I am no money man .I would love to hear what serious investors thought about this deal and we are being told that this multi million pound investment company have just walked away and taken an £18m hit .
Something doesn’t add up here and the sevco 2012 fans may not like to believe it but all I can say is how far did burying your heads in the sand get you with your old club
wottpi says:
Friday, January 11, 2013 at 23:43
From the ECA statement, “membership of an association is neither heritable nor transferable”
So despite their comments ref recognition of history, even they accept when yer deid, yer deid.
New membership = new club.
jonnyod says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 00:26
“IMO CG and Sevco 2012 are now desperately trying to convince anyone who is interested that they still matter in the big scheme of things”
Agreed …… and this is why they and their media pals continue to link them in the same breath as Celtic and, continue to refer to the ‘Old Firm’
Without that assistance and association it is clear to all and sundry that they are nothing more than a newly created, lower tier league team with a larger than average crowd.
The more they cling to Celtic, the more evident the desperation is.
bunion
Agreed ,have you noticed how often the phone in panelists mention the 37,000 Ibrokes ST holders and record crowds even when it is not relevant to the callers point .DJ and D ell are the biggest culprits for it .
“The SPL is fatally-flawed and has been since its introduction in 1998”
I am seeing this statement appear almost every day in the media, journos, pundits, columnists, almost everyone connected to Rangers are spinning it out, why was it not noted many years ago?
It certainly was by many fans of clubs outside of the “Glasgow Mafia”.
I have to admit, I was too busy relaxing on that gravy train while O’Neill, Stachan and now Lennon were racking up titles. I can see now how unfair the system is (mainly due to RTC and TSFM) and I hope any changes lead to a fairer system but we should not be rushing these changes until they make sense for the whole of the game.
If we really want, we could change the revenue distribution next season without changing any league format, we could then take some time to decide the best way forward.
And please, can someone explain the comments from Ally McCoist regarding changes mid-season. I just don’t get what he means; nothing is changing mid-season, only being discussed. Or am I missing the point?
madbhoy
I was a bit puzzled by ally’s complaints too, it’s all the usual woe is me, we are being victimised we have done nothing wrong, we have been punished enough tripe……….. He has been too quiet for a while and had to get ibrokes ( broke ) being the operative word, filled today albeit with mostly free tickets available from all the usual outlets 🙂
Messrs McCoist and Green’s whingeing cannot be due to any interruption to the “journey” that they claim to be enjoying so much – as evidently the same timescale opportunity for return to the top league applies.
The only thing I can see is that they will personally lose out on bonus money if they don’t get “promoted”.
The Bears will get to claim the World Record of being the last club to win the old Third Division, and they’ll get to re-visit all the new friends they’ve made this season again next year.
Brenda says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 08:41
…albeit with mostly free tickets available from all the usual outlets
——
There was some discussion about that on RM recently. Only one guy admitted to geting free tix prior to renewing his SDT, and he was shot down as a liar (surprise). Another guy said he received tickets with £0.00 on them after renewing, because his ST card hadn’t been registered yet.
Overall, the idea of wholesale free tix is ridiculed as nonsense. Do we have any evidence that this actually happened/happens on a regular basis and in significant quantities?
SDT = typo, sorry.
ST, Season Ticket. 😉
Is Charles Green a Threat To Public Order in Scotland?
http://harryhood67.wordpress.com/2013/01/12/is-charles-green-a-threat-to-public-order/
McCoist – “The biggest club in the country has no say…”
Actually, the biggest club in the country does have a say, but has chosen to say very little, at least publicly. Meanwhile, a certain 4th tier team, and its apologists, has never shut up!
And if the biggest club in the country had spoken out and forced the authorities to abide by their own rules, Sevco wouldn’t be playing football at all; and Ogilvie, Doncaster, Regan, Ballantyne and Longmuir’s ‘raison d’etre’ would have disappeared.
And we wouldn’t be listening to McCoist ‘having his say’ on a daily basis.
I pity LNS.
Just had a look at RM and found this: (Stu54 is the deluded chap)
===============
Get on the talk shows,newspapers, radio. And let everyone know all about our plight.How we have been wronged and how Rangers would be good for the game in England.Tell them how we are a truly British club and how much we support every thing that is British.He could start of by saying not many clubs in Britain sing GOD SAVE THE QUEEN. Just go to IBROX and you will hear it long and proud. Not to mention the Union flags that we fly ,dare say more than at every ground in GB. No football team supports our troops more [just ask them].We have to tell the English people your getting a team that is British to the core .Yes Scottish but our loyalties are with the Crown and always will be.
================
You couldn’t give these people a red neck with one of those blow torches.
The Rangers have to shout very loud to be heard from the basement, they have definitely been way overstepping the mark.
Unfortunately, our ruling body is far too compromised to comment, that is the only conclusion I can draw from the SFA silence on this clubs belligerence.
Said it before..Will keep saying it…..As we wait expectantly for this coming week’s gems from Media House Via CG,AMcC JT and various apologists…..
All this victim stuff is ALL about Minimising the potential disaster of the LNS punishments. CG and investors only care about titles in so far as they need to keep the good fans onside..they are terrified of the mega multi million pound punishments which logically follow title stripping
Just in case anyone Thinks this is OTT…consider it this way!
Over at least 10 years or so ..did roughly 30million ‘SPL only ‘ paying customers spending about one billion or so of their hard earned cash for the pleasure ( and that’s from post tax income !!!) watch a set of league competitions where the deck was stacked seriously in favour of one club without any of the fans,other clubs etce knowing what was going on and what they were up to?
When they talk yesterday of lack of sporting integrity..it is laughable…
If there is one scintilla ( nacho novo? ) of evidence that the above is even partly true….LNS should just play out the facts ..give two or three very serious punishment options to CO.. And tell him to select one to communicate to OLDCO/NEWCO… That way it is CO / the SFA rightly having to do the dirty deed.
Andrew Woods says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 10:22
You couldn’t give these people a red neck with one of those blow torches.
===============
Satisfaction could be derived from trying, however.
Today’s Herald contains at Page 15 an excellently written Obituary on the former Rangers Director Hugh Adam. One quote stands out ” He will be missed by many, particularly because of his honesty, his integrity and his caring regard for other people – attributes which seem sadly lacking in many in the world of football”. I wonder to whom this refers.
goosygoosy says:
Friday, January 11, 2013 at 21:40
The fact that Celtic were prepared to give up a share of SPL prize money to facilitate the new set up tells you where the best interests of Celtic and Scottish football lie for the next few years at least.
Nae wonder CG is fuming.
wjohnston1 says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 10:52
Today’s Herald contains at Page 15 an excellently written Obituary on the former Rangers Director Hugh Adam.
——————————————————————————————————————–
I’m glad to see that they have made some amends to their earlier disgraceful character assasination obituary on Mr Adam which should never have made it into the newspaper and I trust the Rangers ‘source’ used is subject to closer scrutiny should they supply any future information.
Andrew Woods says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 10:22
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Just had a look at RM and found this: (Stu54 is the deluded chap)
===============
Get on the talk shows,newspapers, radio. And let everyone know all about our plight.How we have been wronged and how Rangers would be good for the game in England.Tell them how we are a truly British club and how much we support every thing that is British.He could start of by saying not many clubs in Britain sing GOD SAVE THE QUEEN. Just go to IBROX and you will hear it long and proud. Not to mention the Union flags that we fly ,dare say more than at every ground in GB. No football team supports our troops more [just ask them].We have to tell the English people your getting a team that is British to the core .Yes Scottish but our loyalties are with the Crown and always will be.
================
You couldn’t give these people a red neck with one of those blow torches
—————————————————————————————————————————
Bring your own tank or armoured car and get a free half-time pie! (Parking’s a bitch mind you.)
I think all the noise from The new Rangers is because CG is worried that when he has to finally admit its a new club due to overwhelming evidence a large part of the fan base may do walking away.
As for New Rangers wanting to tell the English team we are the most British team in the UK, no other teams care. English teams and fans are proud of being English, Welsh teams and fans are proud of being Welsh and Scottish teams and fans are proud of being Scottish. Britain only has one club obsessed with being British in an age when the home countries are all proud of their individual heritage.
There is no way Green is serious about his ramblings on attempting to leave Scottish Football, because he knows his best bet is to be a big fish in a small pool up here. He is merely trying to ‘steal’ a season (or two) in order to get further up the League structure.
The fans (as in fanatics) would not countenance leaving behind a team (CFC) which will, in time overhaul their League/League Cup hauls, and stretch their advantage in Scottish Cup wins. Such a situation would also eventually ensure that there could be no credible claim to being the ‘biggest club in the country’.
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/26715
Very interesting Arsenal link about Rangers chances of moving to England which also debunks Green’s sex discrimination ploy.
Personally I thought that the cross-border women’s team was more likely to do with positive discrimination for women and women’s football than any sex discrimination against those poor wee Rangers male players.
I suppose it really says it all when Football CEOs are reduced to using sex discrimination as a means to gain entry to a league. I must say that I have been very impressed at the outstanding media contributions made by Traynor in his first week and I look forward to much more of the same 🙂
Last week’s ‘obituary’ was a glimpse of how deep this runs within sections of the Rangers family. To gleefully p*ss on the memory of someone who had worked tirelessly for the cause for decades, someone who actually warned the fans about the reckless and amoral conduct of Murray et al. displays what the peepil mean by ‘loyal’. If its negative, if its critical, even if its informed……its not ‘loyal’, and the fundamental human processes of grief, rememberance (not for the first time this season) and solemnity can be dispensed with and replaced by a cheap, smarmy hatchet job……………so long as it fits with the spirit and tradition of ‘loyalty’!
The debate rages on over in Lala land(RM) there is bear on bear action and I feel I need a shower after every visit.
The decision you feel isn’t too far away and the concensus is that the change is necessary for legal reasons.
The comittee have came up with three front runners they are celtic, rebel and silverware ultimately the decision lies with Charles and Walter but its gonna be a tough call to replace the Fe**** word that so upsets and offends the enemy,
And you wonder why their club is going doon the swanney.
doontheslope says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 10:02
19 2 Rate This
McCoist – “The biggest club in the country has no say…”
===============
Delete ‘club’.
Insert ‘mouth’.
Can i ask who on here is in favour of the reconstruction plans. Starting next season.Thumbs up for yes thumbs down for no
If Mc Coist is unhappy that sevco 2012 do not have a say in the big decisions taken in the Scottish game then I suggest he digs out his address book and gets the number of a certain knight of the realm .If he wants to admit the real reason sevco 2012 do not have a say instead of spouting misinformation get some answers from the Sir and then tell their fans the truth .
May I suggest when CG gets round to renaming Ibrokes ,may I suggest he calls it the SHIITAKE stadium as just like mushrooms their are 39,000 gullible fans being kept in the dark and fed on sh**e every second week
liveinhop says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 12:10
1 1 Rate This
Can i ask who on here is in favour of the reconstruction plans. Starting next season.Thumbs up for yes thumbs down for no
======
You are asking for one answer to two questions.
You know what i mean
Oops Chuckie must have missed this:
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/your-rights/gender/sex-discrimination-as-a-consumer/sex-discrimination-as-a-consumer-what-the-law-says/
General exception for sport – s.44
It is not unlawful in relation to any sport, game or other activity of a competitive nature where the physical strength, stamina or physique of the average woman puts her at a disadvantage to the average man, to confine competitors to one sex. For example, it would not be unlawful for the Football Association to refuse to allow women to play in the men’s football league. Case law has held that this exception also allows separate competitions for boys and girls. This exception would not apply to non-competitive sporting activity.
Is Chukie getting his legal promptings re sex discrimination from Di Stefano?
It is possible to be in favour of the plans but not starting next season.
Sevconians may be of that opinion, for instance.
Anti-Sevconians may be against the plans but insistent that if the reconstruction is to take place then it must be immediately.
I am not being wilfully obtuse.
Just count me as a ‘Don’t Know” and just leave it at that.
League reconstruction – I’m old enough to remember the old Scottish first division (i.e. what was the top division of its day). I recall it being argued on TV that it had to make way for the SPL because the old format had too many meaningless games, and so too few up and coming Scots were learning the steel needed to become truly top players. After a few years of the SPL, I heard it argued on TV that because so many games had a potentially critical bearing on the championship, a place in Europe or relegation, too few up and coming Scottish players were able to learn their craft, and that the balance had tipped towards cheaper imports, as winning games was all that mattered.
In more recent times, the Scottish league has become a byword for a Mickey-Mouse setup, as it had only two teams in with a credible shout of winning the league. Yet we also now have the Spanish league, in which only two teams are in with a credible shout of winning the league, but produced World Cup / European championships / Champions League / all 11 members of FIFPro World XI fantasy football team and so on.
The moral is – reconstructions should not be rushed into, but there are always going to be negatives and positives, sometimes unintended ones (nice if Scotland were to win a World Cup as such a consequence). When under way, all the clubs can do is play honestly to try to succeed under the rules in place at the time. All the administrators should do is act honestly and transparently to ensure that they are run fairly and according to the rules. Otherwise it’s all about the politics, rather than about the sport, which is truly the sign of a Mickey-Mouse setup.
I think that you get more competition if you play each other less, for example, if the teams play Celtic twice a season and Celtic lose a few games, they have a chance of competing for the championship. 4 games per season lesson their chances but the small clubs want the cash from 4 games.
There are very few competitive leagues where there are not 2 to 3 dominant teams. I believe if you want more champions then play each other less. As for this reconstruction I will go with it for now if it goes ahead next season. Any leg up to new Rangers cannot be allowed.
Reconstruction should be postpone until after Sevco become eligible for membership of the SPL
I want to see Charlie Barking Mad, refuse to join the SPL 🙂
troyblain … totally agree
“A Leap of Faith ?”
… Should we try a bigger league were we play each other twice H/A
… And see IF the FANS come back ??
… even if only for ONE season ?
If it’s all about bums on seats ?
I for one seriously lost interest when we first went to 4 times a season …. didn’t really know why at the time but soon got fed up trekking up to aberdeen/ dundee etc …. outings that used to be eagerly looked forward to …. indeed a carload of 5 of us regularly stayed overnight and enjoyed a night out in these cities …. once a year .… great memories !!!
BUT also the smaller league CHOKED local lads from getting a chance … eventually every team that came to visit played 10 behind the baw … BORING !!!! Major League BORING !!!!
WE ALL keep hearing the FANS don’t want 4 times a season !!! I fear MY team has also lost the bottle to give REAL change a chance !!
We are just adding TWO teams to the 2nd tier … Big Whoooah !!!
Were my team are concerned EVERYTHING is exactly the same !!
BORING !!!
Rant Over !!
p.s. my last rant disappeared !!!
quick question
in “The Good Olde Days”
Did we half ALL gates Home/Away … League/Cups ??
I actually think that to be CORRECT .. no matter how many fans the opposition bring … as it’s the teams that play the game … thus my team is probably guilty as part of the big 2 for choking the wee teams to near extinction !!
Has anyone else ever thought the more cash you give a player the worse he gets ?
Listened to TalkSport last night … Theo Walcott £90k a week for 5 years (23 years old) … ??????????????
we state our football is poor then try to sell it to the TV companies for next to nothing. We then claim we cannot change our format because the TV companies would not back it…tail wagging the dog!!
Maybe if we got the league right and had an exciting league bringing through good youngsters the TV companies would flock to cover it.
We have press, media and even those who run our game telling everyone its rubbish then they try and negotiate a tv deal, pathetic.
angus1983 says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 09:06
The only thing I can see is that they will personally lose out on bonus money if they don’t get “promoted”.
=========================================================================
My understanding is that Green will benefit from reconstruction re being paid a promotion bonus on top of his £360,000 annual salary. His original agreement signed on 17 September 2012 agreed an extra non-contractual £360,000 bonus if Rangers won promotion from the SFL.
But a new agreement dated 7 December changed the playing field somewhat by still paying a £360,000 bonus if Rangers wins promotion from the SFL but added ‘or otherwise transfers to another football league’. So, under the old agreement Green couldn’t have got his £360,000 bonus for at least three years. Under the new agreement he could have it next year if the proposed lowest tier is legally ‘another football league’.
Brian Stockbridge has a £200,000 annual salary and under an agreement dated 17 September 2012 was also entitled to an extra non-contractual bonus of £200,000 when Rangers won promotion from the SFL. A new agreement dated 7 December retained the £200,000 bonus but the payment trigger was changed to when Rangers won promotion from the SFL or otherwise transfers to another football league or to another division within a league.
Originally, the bonus couldn’t have been paid for at least 3 years but the amendment means it could be paid next year if Rangers is promoted from SFL3 to SFL2. It is also possible, just like Green, that Stockbridge could have it next year if the proposed lowest tier is legally ‘another football league’.
I am unclear as to whether Stockbridge can only get his £200,000 bonus once or whether he can get it 3 or 4 times with Rangers going-up the leagues either under the old or proposed system which could give him a potential £600-£800k in promotion bonuses.
Despite searching the Rangers AIM flotation document I can’t see Ally getting a bonus for marching through the leagues which seems a bit strange IMHO that a ‘numbers’ man is rewarded for sporting achievement but the team manager isn’t.
It will be interesting to see what the Rangers International remuneration committee – chaired by Phillip Cartmell with Cardigan and Ian Hart as members – makes of the accelerated effect that reconstruction appears to have on bonuses.
McCoist is entitled to bonus payments should the following events occur:
(i) the Club wins the SPL and an additional bonus if this leads to automatic qualification
to the Champions League Group;
(ii) the Club wins the Scottish Domestic Treble;
(iii) the Club qualifies for the Group Stage of the Champions League through the
qualifying route;
(iv) on qualification as one of the last of the 16 teams in the Champions League, such bonuses
as are payable by the Company to the players plus an additional 25 per cent.; and
(v) on receipt of prize money in respect of the European Competition (other than the
Champions League), such bonuses as payable to the players.
—————————————————————————————————————–
Doesn’t look as though Coisty will be earning any bonuses any time soon.
I wonder what the Sevco definition of ‘The Scottish Domestic Treble’ actually is?
Re the earlier post advocating summer football.
I have actually been coming round to this idea over the last few years. Although not fully won over, I certainly think it is worthy of consideration.
It may be financially more lucrative than winter football. We cannot compete with the EPL or the Championship in terms of TV money. Armchair football fans do not suddenly stop being armchair football fans over the summer. Perhaps giving them a product to watch would help us negotiate a much better TV deal.
It may also be a financial winner if we can capture a bigger slice of the (worldwide) gambling market. I’m sure an innovative and distinctive product involving the Scottish game could be devised that would interest the bookies during the summer months.
The better(!) weather might entice more fans to the match (or at least halt the current decline). I think this would be especially true for lower league clubs. It would also promote more evening games.
On the European front, it would mean our top clubs were better prepared for the early rounds of European competition. How many times do we hear that excuse being trotted out by managers? I do accept that it would then be harder to envisage our top teams progressing to the final stages of Euro competitions when the domestic season comes to an end in Autumn…..but how many times do our teams get that far anyway (although well done to Celtic for achieving that this year)? Would it not be better to boost the chances of qualifying for the group stages year after year, even if that compromises the chances of getting to finals?
A possible flaw is the effect on the national team, given that they play qualifiers in the winter and (theoretically) finals in the summer. But many of our international players now play in England anyway (and I am happy for that number to increase – we should be in the business of bringing through exciting young players and selling them on for sizeable fees to richer leagues).
I still believe that we need proper and meaningful league reconstruction – a smaller number of bigger leagues (with the shortfall in home league games possibly taken up by playoffs and some sort of reconstruction to cup competitions, perhaps with a regional element to encourage derby matches). I just wonder whether moving to a summer game might be something we should seriously consider.
Surely the argument that “summer is when we aw go oan holiday” has had its day.
Just thinking aloud. Criticism welcome.
Jim Spence
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20997587
So the heating & seating regulations will be relaxed for reconstruction.
These have been cited on TSFM as potential get-outs for fast tracking Sevco.
Could this be claimed as a win for the fans as a result of this site? Perhaps assisted by the venerable Turnbull’s comments
Either way it has restored just a wee bit of confidence that our voices are being heard