The recent revelations of a potential winding up order being served on Rangers Newco certainly does have a sense of “deja vu all over again” for the average reader of this blog.
It reminds me of an episode of the excellent Western series Alias Smith & Jones. The episode was called The Posse That Wouldn’t Quit. In the story, the eponymous anti-heroes were being tracked by a particularly dogged group of law-men whom they just couldn’t shake off – and they spent the entire episode trying to do just that. In a famous quote, Thaddeus Jones, worn out from running, says to Joshua Smith, “We’ve got to get out of this business!”
The SFM has been trying since its inception to widen the scope and remit of the discussion and debate on the blog. Unsuccessfully. Like the posse that wouldn’t quit, Rangers are refusing to go away as a story. With the latest revelations, I confided in my fellow mods that perhaps we too should get out of this business. I suspect that, even if we did, this story would doggedly trail our paths until it wears us all down.
The fact that the latest episode of the Rangers saga has sparked off debate on this blog may even confirm the notion subscribed to by Rangers fans that TSFM is obsessed with their club. However even they must agree that the situation with regard to Rangers would be of interest to anyone with a stake in Scottish Football; and that they themselves must be concerned by the pattern of events which started over a decade ago and saw the old club fall into decline on a trajectory which ended in liquidation.
But let me enter into a wee discussion which doesn’t merely trot out the notion of damage done to others or sins against the greater good, but which enters the realm of the damage done to one of the great institutions of world sport, Rangers themselves.
David Murray was regarded by Rangers fans as a hero. His bluster, hubris and (as some see it) arrogant contempt for his competitors afforded him a status as a champion of the cause as long as it was underpinned by on-field success.
The huge pot of goodwill he possessed was filled and topped-up by a dripping tap of GIRUY-ness for many years beyond the loss of total ascendency that his spending (in pursuit of European success) had achieved, and only began to bottom out around the time the club was sold to Craig Whyte. In retrospect, it can be seen that the damage that was done to the club’s reputation by the Murray ethos (not so much a Rangers ethos as a Thatcherite one) and reckless financial practice is now well known.
Notwithstanding the massive blemish on its character due to its employment policies, the (pre-Murray) Rangers ethos portrayed a particularly Scottish, perhaps even Presbyterian stoicism. It was that of a conservative, establishment orientated, God-fearing and law-abiding institution that played by the rules. It was of a club that would pay its dues, applied thrift and honesty in its business dealings, and was first to congratulate rivals on successes (witness the quiet dignity of John Lawrence at the foot of the aircraft steps with an outstretched hand to Bob Kelly when Celtic returned from Lisbon).
If Murray had dug a hole for that Rangers, Craig Whyte set himself up to fill it in. No neo-bourgeois shirking of responsibilities and duty to the public for him; his signature was more pre-war ghetto, hiding behind the couch until the rent man moved along to the next door. Whyte just didn’t pay any bills and with-held money that was due to be passed along to the treasury to fund the ever more diminished public purse. Where Murray’s Rangers had been regarded by the establishment and others as merely distasteful, Whyte’s was now regarded as a circus act, and almost every day of his tenure brought more bizarre and ridiculous news which had Rangers fans cringing, the rest laughing up their sleeve, and Bill Struth birling in his grave.
The pattern was now developing in plain sight. Murray promised Rangers fans he would only sell to someone who could take the club on, but he sold it – for a pound – to a guy whose reputation did not survive the most cursory of inspection. Whyte protested that season tickets had not been sold in advance, that he used his own money to buy the club. Both complete fabrications. Yet until the very end of Whyte’s time with the club, he, like Murray still, was regarded as hero by a fan-base which badly wanted to believe that the approaching car-crash could be avoided.
Enter Charles Green. Having been bitten twice already, the fans’ first instincts were to be suspicious of his motives. Yet in one of history’s greatest ironic turnarounds, he saw off the challenge of real Rangers-minded folk (like John Brown and Paul Murray) and their warnings, and by appealing to what many regard as the baser instincts of the fan-base became the third hero to emerge in the boardroom in as many years. The irony of course is that Green himself shouldn’t really pass any kind of Rangers sniff-test; personal, sporting, business or cultural; and yet there he is the spokesman for 140 years of the aspirations of a quarter of the country’s fans.
To be fair though, what else could Rangers fans do? Green had managed (and shame on the administration process and football authorities for this) to pick up the assets of the club for less (nett) than Craig Whyte and still maintained a presence in the major leagues.
If they hadn’t backed him only the certainty of doom lay before them. It was Green’s way or the highway in other words – and speaking of words, his sounded mighty fine. But do the real Rangers minded people really buy into it all?
First consider McCoist. I do not challenge his credentials as a Rangers minded man, and his compelling need to be an effective if often ineloquent spokesman for the fans. However, according to James Traynor (who was then acting as an unofficial PR advisor to the Rangers manager), McCoist was ready to walk in July (no pun intended) because he did not trust Green. The story was deliberately leaked, to undermine Green, by both Traynor and McCoist. McCoist also refused for a long period of time to endorse the uptake of season books by Rangers fans, even went as far as to say he couldn’t recommend it.
So what changed? Was it a Damascene conversion to the ways of Green, or was it the 250,000 shares in the new venture that he acquired. Nothing improper or unethical – but is it idealism? Is it fighting for the cause?
Now think Traynor. I realise that can be unpleasant, but bear with me.
Firstly, when he wrote that story on McCoist’s resignation, (and later backed it up on radio claiming he had spoken to Ally before printing the story), he was helping McCoist to twist Green’s arm a little. Now, and I’m guessing that Charles didn’t take this view when he saw the story in question, Green thinks that Traynor is a “media visionary”?
Traynor also very publicly, in a Daily Record leader, took the “New Club line” and was simultaneously contemptuous of Green.
What happened to change both their minds about each other? Could it have been (for Green) the PR success of having JT on board and close enough to control, and (for Traynor) an escape route for a man who had lost the battle with own internal social media demons?
Or, given both McCoist’s and Traynor’s past allegiance to David Murray, is it something else altogether?
Whatever it is, both Traynor and McCoist have started to sing from a totally different hymn sheet to Charles Green since the winding up order story became public. McCoist’s expert étude in equivocation at last Friday’s press conference would have had the Porter in Macbeth slamming down the portcullis (now there’s an irony). He carefully distanced himself from his chairman and ensured that his hands are clean. Traynor has been telling one story, “we have an agreement on the bill”, and Green another, “we are not paying it”.
And what of Walter Smith? At first, very anti-Charles Green, he even talked about Green’s “new club”. Then a period of silence followed by his being co-opted to the board and a “same club” statement. Now in the face of the damaging WUP story, more silence. Hardly a stamp of approval on Green’s credentials is it?
Rangers fans would be right to be suspicious of any non-Rangers people extrapolating from this story to their own version of Armageddon, but shouldn’t they also reserve some of that scepticism for Green and Traynor (neither are Rangers men, and both with only a financial interest in the club) when they say “all is well” whilst the real Rangers man (McCoist) is only willing to say “as far as I have been told everything is well”
As a Celtic fan, it may be a fair charge to say that I don’t have Rangers best interests at heart, but I do not wish for their extinction, nor do I believe that one should ignore a quarter of the potential audience for our national game. Never thought I’d hear myself say this, but apart from one (admittedly mightily significant) character defect, I can look at the Rangers of Struth and Simon, Gillick and Morton, Henderson and Baxter, and Waddell and Lawrence (and God help me even Jock Wallace) with fondness and a degree of nostalgia.
I suspect most Rangers fans are deeply unhappy about how profoundly their club has changed. To be fair, my own club no longer enchants me in the manner of old. As sport has undergone globalisation, everything has changed. Our relationship to our clubs has altered, the business models have shifted, and the aspirations of clubs is different from that of a generation ago. It has turned most football clubs into different propositions from the institutions people of my generation grew up supporting, but Rangers are virtually unrecognisable.
The challenge right now for Rangers fans is this. How much more damage will be done to the club’s legacy before this saga comes to an end?
And by then will it be too late to do anything about it?
Most people on this blog know my views about the name of Green’s club. I really don’t give a damn because for me it is not important. I do know, like Craig Whyte said, that in the fullness of time there will be a team called Rangers, playing football in a blue strip at Ibrox, and in the top division in the country.
I understand that this may be controversial to many of our contributors, but I hope that this incarnation of Rangers is closer to that of Lawrence and Simon than to Murray and Souness.
Shields
Three points
1 Rangers fans on here are afforded the time and opportunity to make their points. The response they get generally relates to the point they were making. Sometimes it deserves a considered response. Sometimes it deserves a firm rebuttal and sometimes it deserves to be ignored
2 Rangers fans have to take some of the blame . There is a section of your support who are deluded in their determination to play the victim. It’s Celtics fault , it’s Dundee Utd’s fault, it’s other clubs fans fault , it’s down to forums and blogs . Anything but direct the blame at where it should be directed.
Some have come belatedly to realise that overwhelmingly responsible is David Murray. Yet many still want to blame others and play the victim. What’s so difficult to understand about Murray
He was and is blow hard.
He was utterly irresponsible financially
He spent more than a decade hiding information he was legally and morally obliged to provide. In every day language he cheated
Rangers supporters would be better engaged demanding a life ban for this guy, rather than boycotting victims and threatening clubs and people who had absolutely nothing to do with your demise
3 Rangers supporters made the mistake of not challenging Murray I’d Whyte until far too late. You are making the same mistake with Green. Many preferred to engage in triumphalism based on financial doping and downright deception
To those RFC fans who called out Murray and Whyte, you have my sympathy and support. To the lemming like triumphalists , you are reaping what you sowed
Big Pink.
I agree. I also have decided to walk away
.
The LNS report was the last straw. The final insult was the fact they didn’t even go to the bother of trying pull the wool over our eyes.
The name Bryson will forever more be associated with Scottish football – for all the wrong reasons.
To accept what Bryson said without any attempt to look at historic precedent beggars belief – that is of course premised on the fact you had faith in these three learned gentlemen. As far as I can ascertain Bryson’s argument has never been used in the past anywhere in the world of football.
the core of the case, and the only aspect that mattered, indeed the only point that LNS was ask to adjudicate on was the registration issue. The rest of the waffle in the report was a childish attempt to muddy the waters.
Bryson played the role of the gombeen man for the SPA, and thus done for the game in Scotland.
I had a flickering hope that the SPL would demonstrate some outrage at this report but, alas,fool I.
Scottish Football supporters are doing something quite remarkable and something we should be proud of.
Could the whole sorry mess of Rangers administration and liquidation produce something positive? It seems unlikely on the face of it or prima facie as you might say (sorry couldn’t resist), but it may be so.
Looking over the blog posts and comments on Scottish Football the casual observer could easily get the idea the our game is on the brink of a war in which mutual destruction is assured.
I beg to differ.
Football today is a game that is won or lost with the power of wealth, it consumes wealth, effectively gold buys silver.
Astonishingly Scottish football supporters are now questioning this and slowly they are becoming adept at it.
A few years ago it would have been unimaginable that a football clubs finances would have been picked over in such detail by ordinary fans, as has happened with Rangers.
Rangers fans may not like this (who would) but who could doubt the value of it. The wider implications for those who would buy a football club for whatever reason is that in Scotland everything you do will be observed, questioned and tested.
Scottish Football particularly in Glasgow has a complication, it’s an unavoidable and ugly one. Some supporters of Celtic and Rangers are too often blinded by a mutual animosity.
It’s an animosity based on distrust of things which neither side seeks to understand. The antagonists seem to dislike understanding – it negates the dispute.
As crazy as it may seem even in the darkest corner of the darkest room in the darkest home of Scottish Football I can find a positive.
Never before has their been a medium so useful or valuable as the internet, The blog posts and comments of those that inhabit the underworld of Scottish Football are there for all to see.
Everything becomes visible, everything gets questioned. The cloak of anonymity that the internet seems provide is the worst place to hide.
Do any of the Accountants on here have any idea why the only person any media outlet seeks for a view on Rangers finances (old & new) is Neil Patey? There must be many highly qualified, eloquent people out there who might, just might, give us an alternative view to Mr Patey and his sugar coated offerings.
shield2012 says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 21:24
I understand but we both know a lot of this is because of what’s reported in tabloids and on TV.
——
Of course, you’re correct. Too many media outlets take a press release and print it word for word, with no comment or analysis added. It didn’t used to be so obvious (I used to work in the print media myself, and have seen tabloid newsdesks at work), but in these tinternet days it’s glaring.
The laziness of journalism is there for all to see, and often the content isn’t particularly important – it’s “how long is that piece from Tannadice / Easter Road / Ibrox – will it fill two columns?” If it will, it goes in as is. If it needs a bit more, it gets fluffed up with some banal filler. Bingo – columns filled and on to the next page. A cursory glance over the content by the section editor determines whether someone’s told to big the story up – buzzwords rule.
Certain parties have twigged this and put out the most ludicrous press releases, knowing they’ll see print. And knowing that the message they wish to convey will go straight to the tabloid-buying fan who, by definition, is the most gullible and probably also the most unthinkingly loyal.
If I wanted to appeal to this large section of the fanbase, what I’d do is employ an ex-tabloid journalist who may be a dunce, but who knows exactly how these things operate.
A person phoned up Clyde tonight and said ‘how could we have had an advantage after all it was the players on the pitch that won titles not the money”.
Give me £47 million to build a team and play it anywhere in Europe, it would create a reasonable team in any league. I guess McCoist would not have a sporting advantage if given £20 million to get new rfc back to the spl.
for the want of the titles a team needed to be bought for the want of a team players needed to be got, for the want of players funds needed to be sought.
Murray said for every £5 Celtic spend we will spend £10 and true to his word he ran up the dEBT in his quest for glory.
Barca
I’m afraid Rangers and the fans even go a step further.
Apparently it was Craig Whyte who failed to pay tax / NIC etc which led to administration. It wasn’t anything to do with the club.
The fact he was the owner, and he ran the board and in every real sense his decisions and his actions were the decisions and actions of the club is ignored.
The fact that he actually used the money to keep the business going and without it they would have gone into administration sooner was irrelevant.
Like choosing what to keep of the history, choosing what debt to lose, the fans choose what the club will be responsible for and what is someone else’s fault. That someone else can be another club, or a blogger, or even their owner. It doesn’t really matter who, as long as it is someone else.
Signing off for a welcome break away 🙂 the clock will keep ticking but I very much doubt anything will happen in my short absence 🙂 play nice and I look forward to come back to some earth shattering news 🙂 take care all B
Rumour circulating that SPL clubs are talking about leaving Scottish football en – mass.
There may be light at the end of the tunnel yet?
Senior says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 22:37
Rumour circulating that SPL clubs are talking about leaving Scottish football en – mass.
There may be light at the end of the tunnel yet?
====================================================
Perhaps a joint statement that they are ‘actively seeking a way out’ would be enough to get peoples attention. After all, it worked for Charles Green.
Senior that would be good.
Senior says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 22:37
Rumour circulating that SPL clubs are talking about leaving Scottish football en – mass.
There may be light at the end of the tunnel yet?
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Interesting if true. There is the small matter of the SPL endorsing the LNS commission first. Without addressing this disgrace, few non-Sevco fans will be willing to move on.
Senior says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 22:37
7 0 Rate This
Rumour circulating that SPL clubs are talking about leaving Scottish football en – mass.
There may be light at the end of the tunnel yet?
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As much as I’d love that I can’t see it happening.
What would FIFA/UEFA say about it?
Would It mean Celtic couldn’t play in the champions league?
We shall see anyway and this would be blinking nuclear 🙂
Senior says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 22:37
I was told from a very high source to “trust us”. It is quite clear that what is good for Scottish football is a change from the environment that suffocates us to one where all clubs have an opportunity to find their true level and prosper.
That as opposed to provding gladiator fodder for Celtic and in due course once again an uncorrected Rangers.
Ironically a corrected Rangers would benefit from such a change but that would not trouble me in the least.
The law of unforeseen consequences has a name that escapes me.
We are always talking on here about fan boycotts and that has got me thinking which is indeed a truly frightening experience for me.
What if, and granted this is a big if, the clubs themselves boycotted their own fixtures for one weekend in protest at the intimidation, rule breaking, and general mis-conduct of the people running our sport.
What would happen. Each club would be deducted three points but if both teams are then everyone remains equal. Now it goes without saying that ‘The Rangers’ would not be deducted anything indeed they may be given everyone else’s points.
If clubs, with the agreement of their opponents, simply shut the gates and both teams refused to play the fixture would this bring the issues in our country to the attention of UEFA.
Who knows at the same time clubs could call for a vote of no confidence in the SFA.
This obviously goes to the heart of the issue of how many clubs genuinely want change within our sport. Instead of ‘sell out Saturday’ how about ‘shut out Saturday’.
Feel free to shoot down the idea but all this thinking has gone to my head and I’m off to bed.
bill1903 says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 22:55
Given that UEFA/FIFA have said sod all up and left it to the SFA to sort out my response would be to tell them to sod off.
Someone with a sense of humour at stv? picture of the Etihad (Manchester) after CG said something again..
Blackadder,
I haven’t looked at these interim accounts, and forgive my potential ignorance, but the share issue income was for another company was it not? So how can TRFC include it? Unless RIFC have just given it away, and I can’t imagine the institutional shareholders will be happy if that were the case. Fans yes, others not so much.
Have we all been so duped by CG that people continually confuse these companies in addition to the newco / oldco confusions?
Captain Haddock says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 23:04
I believe these interims are for Rangers International PLC, the holding company, and they are fulfilling an AIM requirement.
That did confuse me as well, because that seems to make it look like they are getting all of the income from season ticket sales, are paying all of the wages and other bills etc.
That being the case, what does the limited company actually do.
Interesting but beware the trojan cow!?!
Shift debt – check
Keep history – check
Be part of restructure with fresh chips (on shoulders) all round = crowds – check
Get back to top unseemingly quickly with support from non RFC sources – Surprising bonus
CO, SR and ND fall on swords – Not our problem.
Many years ago a rather bullying shower of nutters were ruining one of the Saturday morning leagues in EK, fighting , refs assaulted, players followed to their door steps and battered , you get the picture.
All the teams met in secret (Calderwood Inn , I think, so the folklore goes) and formed a new league (without informing the aforementioned miscreants) , the good guys then resigned from the old league the day after applications for the new league were closed, leaving the nutters to play with themselves.
I suspect the above tactical steps are perhaps a bit tricky to follow for professional football….. indeed the SFA are the custodians of the rule book and authorise football at a professional level, so I am totally in the dark how the SFA can be ‘sidelined’ ………….. and the SPL doing their own thing.
I believe the only option is that if the SPL clubs must fight to get the LNS sporting integrity assertion reversed. I suspect that this will not be achieved as too many Chairmen will want an easy life. I am however beggarded if I am giving up watching professional football because of that absolute shower.
I can sense that the mood music may be changing, Green is being placed in his box by investors and possible MMurray, Celtic will carefully push the sporting integrity agenda and see if that garners support , and try and flush out Green. If there is no support from the SPL then that goes into the black book for future use and if Green blows his cover then I can see Celtic requesting future games against the new Rangers are played behind closed doors with no TV ………….. we will not accept tickets for Ibrox or provide tickets. ……. due to the threat of public disorder
Green is in a difficult place and he would be advised to keep quiet , however their DNA will not permit this and I suspect that Celtic will now emerge from a period of silence given the disciplinary hearings are completed……and start to push it, direct full metal jacket conflict with the SFA is inevitable and more files passed to UEFA.
…. Interesting times …. we will need to be at our best to beat Utd in the semis!!
easyJambo says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 20:18
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Cheers. Much obliged.
upthehoops says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 22:23
………………………………….
He says what they want to hear….and when I last checked he was part of a business committee that included a Director of STV and a director of BDO….maybe something or nothing as Scotland is a small pond….but it is strange he appears to be given all the TV gigs!
Auldheid (@Auldheid) on Monday, March 4, 2013 at 21:19
1 17 Rate This
Dundee Utd Chairman wants to move on. Guess thats it.
@hendopolis: Scotsman Sport: Thompson confirms a line will be drawn under Rangers EBT payments #tomorrowspaperstoday http://t.co/qly3j5UAix
Thomson confirms SPL will draw a line under Rangers EBT payments.
dixonbainbridge71 says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 09:41
From what I’m reading the Rangers accounts released are unaudited. Does this mean they could be a load of nonsense?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Yep
They are a load of nonsense
The only certainty we can deduce from unaudited accounts presented by Spivs is that there will never be a set of audited accounts to compare them against
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Its boring but worth repeating
RIFC are a Spiv Co created by Spivs for the sole purpose of being milked by Spivs
TRFC are totally dependent on RIFC and firmly under the control of Spivs
dentarthurdent42 says at 23.11. You are correct in that RIFC collect all monies and ST cash and any other income streams that CG dreams up. As TRFC are not a “legal entity” it has no bank account, no means of entering into contracts, unable to sign documents etc,etc, TRFC relies on RIFC to be in existence. This never happened with RFC(il) throughout it’s history which ended in 2012. Charles Green’s company will sign and pay players on behalf of TRFC.
So Charles Green states that TRFC would be better off in England and he doesn’t want parachuting anywhere (he said without a trace of irony) they’d be happy to start in the conference where it would only be four promotions to the EPL.
So there you have it Regan and Doncaster. You’ve supplied the special treatment, the grovelling and fawning, the tolerance of the intolerable and they don’t even want you. They’d be off to England tomorrow.
I hope you feel dirty.
There are 2 possible angles on the ‘lets draw a line under this’ mess they can follow…
1. An EGM is called to hold a vote of no confidence in those who run the SFA..
There is a strong case for this as it has been shown they either neglected their duty by allowing one club to deliberatly ignore the rules everyone else abides by for 10 years…or they conspired with one club and allowed them to circumvent the rules….for 10 years.
2. The SPL have the power to refuse entry to their division any club who do not meet their criteria for entry. I would suggest a full warts an all forensic look at their books before entry is granted..as RTC many moons ago…the SPL is a private club and can apply their own entry conditions…and once the books have been checked give em a knock back with a little note stating….’not this year Charlie..maybe next time who knows?’
I would say they need to provide a 25 million pound bond up front to cover any unexpected eventuality…
Or a 47 million pound bond…..reducing by 2 million each season they apply for entry…that should balance out the years they have to wait with the unfair advantage they gained in the last 10!
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 23:40
Auldheid (@Auldheid) on Monday, March 4, 2013 at 21:19
1 17 Rate This
Dundee Utd Chairman wants to move on. Guess thats it.
@hendopolis: Scotsman Sport: Thompson confirms a line will be drawn under Rangers EBT payments #tomorrowspaperstoday http://t.co/qly3j5UAix
Thomson confirms SPL will draw a line under Rangers EBT payments.
=========================================================
Surely that’s for HMRC or the UTT to decide? All the SPL can draw a line under is that Rangers obfuscated, hid and deceived over player registration details .. or am I wrong?
@Daily_Record: Today’s back page: http://t.co/PF5ylnnbhh
Incredible, Doncaster gets a 28k pay rise.
Senior says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 22:37
Rumour circulating that SPL clubs are talking about leaving Scottish football en – mass.
There may be light at the end of the tunnel yet?
__________
Could it be that the stench of decay creeping up from a lower limb is becoming too much too bear? If the Green gang, or rather, the gangGreen is allowed to spread further, every SPL club is at risk. Will there be a call for amputation, I wonder?
And of course there would need to be a forensic examination of fit and proper persons test on the directors and investors of any club who apply for entry to the SPL….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9908159/Charles-Green-vows-to-ban-Rangers-bigots-for-life.html
Charles Green vows to ban Rangers bigots for life
Rangers chief executive Charles Green revealed that he intends to hand out life bans not only to supporters found guilty of singing sectarian songs but also to any fans in the immediate vicinity who fail to either silence or shop the offenders.
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 00:40
0 0 Rate This
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9908159/Charles-Green-vows-to-ban-Rangers-bigots-for-life.html
Charles Green vows to ban Rangers bigots for life
Rangers chief executive Charles Green revealed that he intends to hand out life bans not only to supporters found guilty of singing sectarian songs but also to any fans in the immediate vicinity who fail to either silence or shop the offenders.
______________
looks like an O.G by charlie the hordes are turning against him on follow follow
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 00:40
0 0 Rate This
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9908159/Charles-Green-vows-to-ban-Rangers-bigots-for-life.html
Charles Green vows to ban Rangers bigots for life
Rangers chief executive Charles Green revealed that he intends to hand out life bans not only to supporters found guilty of singing sectarian songs but also to any fans in the immediate vicinity who fail to either silence or shop the offenders.
*******
Will that be before or after he brings out the orange tops?
It has been mooted by the more cynical that it is step 1 on the exit strategy.
Does CG mean the French version of bigot again?
I really think that Celtic is in a parlous state if it accepts the spl board decision. Other clubs too such as Hearts and Aberdeen may also lose significant numbers. Without the money from fans the clubs will die. In ten years we coukd see an ersatz league wher only Rangers and token fodder play in a meaningless league to provide mindless viewing for the peepil
The vast majority of football fans will have an English or Spanish team that they root for on tele. The home game will indeed become like th Irish leagues. They said Armageddon would follow Rangers demise;in fact it will follow the processes and corruption which refused to let them die.
Sean McNulty says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 12:32
LNS belongs to the same small, erm, debating society as Hamish McLeod Grossart, a debating society that seemingly never debates and that’s notorious for mutual backscratching (e.g. over the Skye bridge protests). Grossart’s nephew’s company owns over 7% of Sevco.
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The links to the Spec are interesting, but it’s Grossart’s links to his Uncle Angus (another Spec member), and therefore (-S)DM that would give it more spice:
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Update: I knew i had forgotten a small detail:
“Noble Grossart, the merchant bank chaired by Sir Angus Grossart – himself a board member of Murray International Holdings – had “acted exclusively”as advisers to Rangers in the sale of the club to Wavetower.”
Grossart’s filthy paws are all over this – but never gets a mention. Why?
How can the game continue in Scotland ,not with the likes of Sevco and its ,our way or the highway attitude,but Regan and co in charge where we now know that they are structuring the game around this highway and lead the rest of the clubs down a one way system,a dead end.
Iceman 63
I am afraid I have to agree with you ,what has went on here is the BIGGEST sporting scandal in our game . I know the peepil responsible have ended my 35 yr involvement and it never crossed my mind before to never follow my club but I feel I have been left with no alternative .
For me now
There is such an obvious bias in our game ,that it is now impossible to attend a match without believing it is rigged
Where will the line be drawn ,when sevco reach the SPL or will they need to be in the top 6 ,will them challenging for the title be enough or will they need to win a few to ensure the sevco fans keep coming .
I have tried to find a reason for the LNS decision but I am only wasting my time and to be honest life’s too short ,so good luck to the SFA/SPL and their WWF franchise .
I will from now on look forward to the day my club manage to remove us from this Scottish sham and I can once again take a seat at a REAL FOOTBALL MATCH .
Senior says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 22:37
I was told from a very high source to “trust us”. It is quite clear that what is good for Scottish football is a change from the environment that suffocates us to one where all clubs have an opportunity to find their true level and prosper.
=====================================================
I would be delighted if we could ever get such an environment, although I believe that to be impossible in Scotland, where there is clearly a traditional hierarchy to be observed, which means Rangers must be more successful than anyone else most of the time. Following on from that some success from Celtic will be tolerated as long as it is less often than Rangers. The rest can fight among themselves.
It is believed the former Republic of Ireland Under-21
international (Daly) currently earns in the region of £1,800 per week, but he could expect a significant hike if he rejects interest from England and overseas to move to Ibrox.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2288188/Jon-Daly-Rangers-target.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So only Rangers can offer Daly a significant pay rise? England and Europe cannot compete? How can that be? How can a Scottish club that loses £7m in less than six months possibly pay more than anyone else?
It’s time the authorities took a close look at The Rangers finances if you ask me.
Or am I simply reading too much into it. When Wilson writes:
“he could expect a significant hike if he rejects interest from
England and overseas to move to Ibrox.”
perhaps he meant that to be taken literally?
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 05:13
Update: I knew i had forgotten a small detail:
“Noble Grossart, the merchant bank chaired by Sir Angus Grossart – himself a board member of Murray International Holdings – had “acted exclusively”as advisers to Rangers in the sale of the club to Wavetower.”
Grossart’s filthy paws are all over this – but never gets a mention. Why?
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
That would be a rather speculative question.
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 00:40
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9908159/Charles-Green-vows-to-ban-Rangers-bigots-for-life.html
Charles Green vows to ban Rangers bigots for life
Rangers chief executive Charles Green revealed that he intends to hand out life bans not only to supporters found guilty of singing sectarian songs but also to any fans in the immediate vicinity who fail to either silence or shop the offenders.
………………………………………….
He could start with the 2 arrested at Berwick?
“Ee ba gum! Traynor! Come ‘ere. Wat’s this about bigots? told thee, lad, we’re going to ban gigots!”
CG deserves all the publicity he can get for this. From today’s Telegraph.
Green adopted the hardline stance on the day that Rangers announced to the Stock Exchange their results for the second half of 2012, during which they posted losses of £7 million.
They also revalued Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park at £40 million and the “intangibles” – the goodwill and history – at £19 million. Liquidators BDO will have noted that Green’s consortium paid administrators Duff & Phelps only £5.5 million for those assets last year.
Manager Ally McCoist claimed at the weekend that Rangers could not become a global brand until they managed to get rid of the bigots who had attached themselves to the club and Green concurs.
“Sectarianism, or any form of race or religious discrimination, is not acceptable in any way shape or form, not in the work place, not in a football stadium,” he said.
“I know Rangers have made great strides, but my position is very clear on it: anybody who is identified will be banned for life. There will be no appeals and nobody will be let off.
“What I also said at the meeting [with supporters] is that if you’re stood next to the man [and] you are not seen to be policing that, ie putting your hand up and saying, ‘Arrest my best mate because of his sectarian chanting’ I’m going to ban you as well. I feel so strongly about it.
“This is something that we can stamp out, something that we can deal with and it has not place in society and definitely not in Charles Green’s Rangers.
“We’ve had a fantastic year, we’ve made lots of friends and for it to be spoiled by a mindless few is ridiculous.”
_____________________________________________________________________________
Has CG changed his name to Billy Graham II ?
And his disciple, AMcC, “until we get rid of the bigots”.
Are we talking revival here ?
Where’s ma bible ?
manandboy says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 08:54
“We’ve had a fantastic year, we’ve made few friends and for it to be spoiled by lots is ridiculous.”
————————————
Fixed that for you.
SPL options as I see it.
Kick the can
Begrudgingly accept findings with a wee pander to the bampots along the lines of subject to the UTTT findings. Result – Sevco either stay where they are (the new third div) to maximise non sevco bums on seats, but flip side is presumably lower TV deal. Odds – favourite! Similar scenario by waiting a year to get sevco to top of div 2. Depends if CG has enough hay to feed his horse that long!
A wee helping hand
As above but use the Stranraer precedent to get them up to new div 2. Result – Sevco continue their journey, slightly less non sevco bums attend (see what I did there) but tv deal, especially for the second half of the season makes up the difference. Odds – beaten on the line in a photo finish. CG to boycott camera manufacturer. SFA to rule that cameras evidence is inconsequential as open to debate.
Mass exodus vs 1
Mass resignation presumably from SPL. SFA board voted out. New top tier by invite. Much initial gnashing of teeth down govan way but its only when Sky (in the absence of any other bidders apparently!) bear their teeth that a 1 way, 1 party agreement to do with stadia criteria suddenly emerges and we all contiunue as we were, with very short memories apparently. Odds – outsider with recent form.
Mass exodus vs 2
As above but sevco don’t receive an invite. Odds – reared up and didn’t get in the starting gate.
Cynica, moi?
One of the strengths of this blog and indeed one thing I have learned from this whole episode is not to believe everything I read, I cannot remember who said it but some guy said “Teach your kids not only to read but also to question what they read, teach them to question everything”.
But even though I question the reason for any statement made from CG, I cannot possibly read anything negative into his statement on discrimination. Let’s be wary and always on guard but also recognize when something positive comes out of Rangers, that is as unambiguous a statement against the bigots as I have ever seen from any club.
Credit where it is due, well done Charles Green!
To follow on from yesterday’s post.
Revalue the assets to inflate the value of the club/company – Check
Burn investors money for day to day operating costs – Check
Not long after taking over the club makes noises about stamping out bigotry and aim to sign a Catholic from an opposition club that your fans despise – Check.
To be fair, Green is to be applauded by coming out with such a strong sound bite (even if it is just the Telegraph and not the red tops). However like SDM I think the business side of things are driving this as next seasons sponsors have probably had a word in his shell like following the Berwick incident. If thats what it takes well and good, however it will be interesting to see if some of the looney Bears start up the choir to test Charlie’s mettle.
Richard Wilson @timomouse
Rangers share price collapsing today. Down 3% already.
madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 09:19
“Teach your kids not only to read but also to question what they read, teach them to question everything”.
George Carlin
For Children substitue fans 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDbLIELgrZw
rantinrobin says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 09:32
1 0 Rate This
Richard Wilson @timomouse
Rangers share price collapsing today. Down 3% already.
==================
The price would have to fall a lot more than 3% before I started talking about a collapse.
rantinrobin says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 09:32
“Collapsing” – a bit strong for a few pennies drop early in the day.
I expect the interim accounts will have an effect but I’d reserve judgement until the end of the day.
Yet another piece rank stupidity from Derek Johnstone last night. Rangers would have broken even if they didn’t have to pay Davis McGregor and co for 2 months
What part of they didn’t Tupe over and have never been employed by Green , far less ever received a penny from him
His stupidity is only matched by his desperation. What’s even more scary us that financial expert Neil Patety heard him and didn’t correct him
That’s another straw you can stop clutching at DJ. This ones not attached to anything either
rantinrobin says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 09:32
5 0 i
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Richard Wilson @timomouse
Rangers share price collapsing today. Down 3% already.
============================================
Richard – 3 trades of a total 2165 shares does not equal collapse.
madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 09:19
One of the strengths of this blog and indeed one thing I have learned from this whole episode is not to believe everything I read, I cannot remember who said it but some guy said “Teach your kids not only to read but also to question what they read, teach them to question everything”.
But even though I question the reason for any statement made from CG, I cannot possibly read anything negative into his statement on discrimination. Let’s be wary and always on guard but also recognize when something positive comes out of Rangers, that is as unambiguous a statement against the bigots as I have ever seen from any club.
Credit where it is due, well done Charles Green!
————————————————————-
If this blog has taught us anything it’s not to take seriously anything that Mr Charles says. Everything he says and does is agenda driven.
For a man who has all along played the orange card I’ll take with a very large pinch of salt any apparently positive announcements he, or Rangers, makes on getting rid of their sectarian baggage.
He/they will get credit from me when they pay their dues to both their debtors and society in general. Until then he’s on a proforma.
barcabhoy says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 09:52
============
I picked up on this too. Neil Patey, whose predictions during the entire debacle have been pretty poor, comes across as a Sevconian.
iceman63 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 05:05
57 1 Rate This
I really think that Celtic is in a parlous state if it accepts the spl board decision. Other clubs too such as Hearts and Aberdeen may also lose significant numbers. Without the money from fans the clubs will die. In ten years we coukd see an ersatz league wher only Rangers and token fodder play in a meaningless league to provide mindless viewing for the peepil
The vast majority of football fans will have an English or Spanish team that they root for on tele. The home game will indeed become like th Irish leagues. They said Armageddon would follow Rangers demise;in fact it will follow the processes and corruption which refused to let them die
——————————————————————————————————————–
I agree with all of the above. My team is in the semi final of the Scottish Cup and I will not be setting foot in Hampden, if they get to final the same will apply. I follow my team home and away and it really hurts that I will not be there in the ground to see my team but this is a decision I had to make as the governing body of our game is corrupt.
I have followed my team for over 40 years and been a season holder for 20 years and I have o a big decision to make at the end of this season. If this decision concerning Sevco is not appealed by my club and all the other clubs, or not challenged by the SPL or anybody, then corruption will have won and the game is over. I would not renew my season book as enough is enough.
The verdict was guilty and then the panel were found guilty of feeding corruption. Alexander Bryson was so conflicted his evidence was a joke. It is now no laughing matter for Scottish football.
The biggest joke of all is Campbell Ogilvie and he really is Mr Corrupt. Only in Scotland.
I also like the idea muted about stay away Saturday. Bring this corruption to people outwith Scotland as I am now of the opinion that there is no independent panels in oor wee country that can tell the truth without fear or favour.
In fact it seems like favours are done without fear when it applies to one team.
tomtomaswell says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:00
1 0 i
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madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 09:19
One of the strengths of this blog and indeed one thing I have learned from this whole episode is not to believe everything I read, I cannot remember who said it but some guy said “Teach your kids not only to read but also to question what they read, teach them to question everything”.
But even though I question the reason for any statement made from CG, I cannot possibly read anything negative into his statement on discrimination. Let’s be wary and always on guard but also recognize when something positive comes out of Rangers, that is as unambiguous a statement against the bigots as I have ever seen from any club.
Credit where it is due, well done Charles Green!
————————————————————-
If this blog has taught us anything it’s not to take seriously anything that Mr Charles says. Everything he says and does is agenda driven.
For a man who has all along played the orange card I’ll take with a very large pinch of salt any apparently positive announcements he, or Rangers, makes on getting rid of their sectarian baggage.
He/they will get credit from me when they pay their dues to both their debtors and society in general. Until then he’s on a proforma.
====================
This story reminds me a lot of the window dressing done by the late Willie Waddell when he stood on the half way line at Ibrox and addressed the hordes in 1976. Under pressure at the time, he told them that the signing policy was about to change. Nothing much was done about their non signing of Roman Catholics until Souness signed Johnston a decade later. (John Spencer appeared to be the token exception)
Britney wrote about it recently.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/spiers-on-sport-how-long-to-kill-off-bigotry-at-rangers.2013023893
I’ll wait and see if Mr Charles lives up to his word before I give him any praise.
When will the administrators of our sullied game man up and propose what they really want to do instead of all the smoke and mirrors? An elite league of one club is what is required, then the rest of us can get on with the rest of our lives. The fixers remain in control and I for one will be doing nothing to support the end result. Where are my golf clubs?
Douglas Fraser @BBCDouglsFraser
The numbers that matter for #Rangers’ recovery, and where Hearts is heading. My blog: http://bbc.in/12poyq9
Talking about the John Spencer signing. I wonder if this was far away from the truth. 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUXhW3JC9Zw
tomtomaswell says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:00
If this blog has taught us anything it’s not to take seriously anything that Mr Charles says. Everything he says and does is agenda driven.
Response: Agreed!
For a man who has all along played the orange card I’ll take with a very large pinch of salt any apparently positive announcements he, or Rangers, makes on getting rid of their sectarian baggage.
Response: While I agree that he has made more than a few deliberate mistakes on this, that must not detract from a positive statement. I don’t really care about his motivations for doing so, it is a massive step in the right direction and one we have been requesting for decades. A no strings attached, unequivocal condemnation of fans that sing songs of hate. I will take that even if the guy gets paid 1m bucks to make the statement!
He/they will get credit from me when they pay their dues to both their debtors and society in general. Until then he’s on a proforma.
Response: Agreed!
‘Credit where it is due, well done Charles Green!’
Ah the neck. LNS , HMRC could’t help him so he plays his last card. This is part of the exit strategy.
He talks about bigots this week, but only a few weeks ago he travelled to Belfast and promised a possibility of changing to an orange strip and you suggest “credit where it’s due”!! I suspect tongue-in-cheek time?
Commentary from RM, where this chap seems to be missing the “spirit” of Mr Green’s announcement somewhat:
“I know it’s an emotive subject for some, but Charles is right – the media, the Internet bheasts & plenty other bastards are lining up to stick the boot in & as it stands, some of the songs are giving these fuckers the ammunition they’re craving.
I’m a great advocate of freedom of speech, but the time & place for protesting against perceived censorship isn’t, I believe, at our games – that’s what these people want, it’s playing right into their hands – they’ve campaigned long & hard to villify these songs & those singing them, so singing “offensive” songs at games is only going to damage the club & get people a weekender & and a court appearance for their touble.
If folk want to sing certain songs they know certain people will use as a stick to beat us with, do it on the bus to the game, do it in the pub before & after the game – arrange a demonstration in the middle of George Square & sing them as a protest against constraints on freedom of speech – that’s fine – it won’t harm the club, but continuing to belt out the old songbook when people are using it as a weapon against us, is doing the Club absolutely no favours whatsoever – certain attitudes need to change, harsh fact of modern football but there you are…”
If the SPL in total agree to walk away from the SFA then UEFA would have no option but to recognise this new entity immediately. I suggest that this would be the greatest development in the history of the game in Scotland and would send out, World-Wide, an unbelievable message. I also happen to think that attendances would go through the roof.
It’s interesting that Mr Green used a certain tactic to get a large proportion of the fan base onside.
He seems now to be going entirely the other way. If anything too far with his alleged “if you don’t shop them you will get banned as well”
For someone who is so clearly manipulative it’s difficult to see this as other than a deliberate tactic.
madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 09:19
One of the strengths of this blog and indeed one thing I have learned from this whole episode is not to believe everything I read, I cannot remember who said it but some guy said “Teach your kids not only to read but also to question what they read, teach them to question everything”.
But even though I question the reason for any statement made from CG, I cannot possibly read anything negative into his statement on discrimination.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Its a good statement but unfortunately it came from a Spiv
Spivs never never never tell the whole truth and are only interested in money
When a Spiv makes a statement that upsets the cow being milked he does it because it saves him money somewhere else
So
Either
The statement is a quid pro quo for the SFA privately forgiving all sectarian singing incidents to date
Or
It`s a consequence of ESPN raising the issue as a major negative for BT to look out for when they start televising TRFC matches
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:47
Commentary from RM, where this chap seems to be missing the “spirit” of Mr Green’s announcement somewhat:
“I know it’s an emotive subject for some, but Charles is right – the media, the Internet bheasts & plenty other bastards are lining up to stick the boot in & as it stands, some of the songs are giving these fuckers the ammunition they’re craving.
I’m a great advocate of freedom of speech, but the time & place for protesting against perceived censorship isn’t, I believe, at our games – that’s what these people want, it’s playing right into their hands – they’ve campaigned long & hard to villify these songs & those singing them, so singing “offensive” songs at games is only going to damage the club & get people a weekender & and a court appearance for their touble.
If folk want to sing certain songs they know certain people will use as a stick to beat us with, do it on the bus to the game, do it in the pub before & after the game – arrange a demonstration in the middle of George Square & sing them as a protest against constraints on freedom of speech – that’s fine – it won’t harm the club, but continuing to belt out the old songbook when people are using it as a weapon against us, is doing the Club absolutely no favours whatsoever – certain attitudes need to change, harsh fact of modern football but there you are…”
————————————————————-
And all said without as much as a “you know what, we should stop singing these songs not because they might harm our club but because they’re wrong, out of date and out of touch with modern society”
Senior says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:52
If the SPL in total agree to walk away from the SFA then UEFA would have no option but to recognise this new entity immediately. I suggest that this would be the greatest development in the history of the game in Scotland and would send out, World-Wide, an unbelievable message. I also happen to think that attendances would go through the roof.
————————————————————————————————————————–
Frankly unless you got an OK on a nod and a wink from them beforehand I don’t think Uefa would give two hoots. And nor would the rest of the world.
While we can all enjoy what we have domestically the reality is that we are a pimple on the backside of the planet football.
The occasional club foray into Europe aside we are not on anyone’s radar. Add to that the national teams current status and you get where I am coming from.
While Celtic’s journey this season has been a shot I the arm for our game as a whole, my guess is that for the rest of Europe, if they get knocked out early stages next year no one will be shedding a tear.
tomtomaswell says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 11:04
To be fair I looked at RM and while there are some ‘outdated contributors’ that you can pick from there are plenty saying enough is enough.
e.g If you think these songs are more important than the club then take it elsewhere, we don’t agree with it nor want it.