The Immortality Project – or – Death and Denial – Guest Post by Humble Pie
Death has a tendency to put everything else into perspective.
My family recently suffered a bereavement. It wasn’t a sudden death but it was still far too quick and far too soon for any of us to get our heads around. As our loved one’s illness progressed, each of us, in our own way, began to prepare for the inevitable. In the end, whilst it was not unexpected, it was nevertheless very traumatic, for everyone concerned.
Grief is a strange and often debilitating set of emotions. Even now, a few months on, when the intense sadness and tears have given way (mostly) to disbelief, we still find it hard to fully comprehend what has happened. We might never completely ‘come to terms’ with that fact, however, we do accept that it DID happen, much as we all wish that it hadn’t.
Many of you will be familiar with the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Well, I am aware of having experienced each of these stages over the last year, as well as a couple of others which I wasn’t prepared for (a lot of personal reflection, a little guilt and a not insignificant amount of pain).
It seems to me that the Rangers supporters have been purposefully ensnared in an interminable cycle of the first two stages of KR; alternating between the denial of the death of Rangers and anger at what they feel has been done to their beloved club then back again to denial. This, as any first year psychology student will tell you, is a very unhealthy state of mind which, if not addressed, can quickly lead to physiological and behavioural problems.
At its lowest level, for example, people throughout the ages have continued to set places at the dinner table for their long-dead loved ones. They know in their hearts that the person has died but are comforted by the familiarity of doing the same things that they have always done. However, in extreme cases people have even kept and maintained the actual cadavers of the deceased, dressed them, talked to them and watched TV with them, in a state of absolute denial.
In archaeology, accepting and recognising the inevitability of death through conducting ceremonial burial services is considered to be one of the very first signs of a civilised people. You see, grief is a uniquely human and cathartic process i.e. it can produce ‘a feeling of being cleansed emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically as a result of an intense emotional experience’.
In short, grief is ultimately a good thing which leads you through a series of natural psychological steps towards acknowledgement of an unalterable situation, allowing you to take stock, re-evaluate and start to move on with your own life in a positive way.
That is what should have happened with the fans of the old Rangers.
Instead, this ‘never-ending cycle of the undead’ was positively encouraged by those many unscrupulous individuals who saw a way of making a fast buck from maintaining the ‘Then, Now and Forever’ illusion. Worse still, this resurrection fantasy is being facilitated by the very people whom we have entrusted to stop this kind of thing from happening in the first place. If only the SFA or the MSM had told them the truth, they might have had a chance to actually face up to the situation.
Unfortunately, these two bodies were so complicit in Rangers demise, so right up to their necks in the brown smelly stuff, that they were too afraid to face the inevitable anger which would have rightly come their way. So, they made up grim fairy tales to feed to the bereaved souls about non-existent ‘holding companies’, the ethereal ‘club’ which transcends death and by suggesting that it is ‘all a matter of opinion’.
Ernest Becker, in his 1973 Pulitzer Prize winning book ‘The Denial of Death’, posits that “human civilization is no more than an elaborate, symbolic defence mechanism against the knowledge of our own mortality”. This fear of death acts as an emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival instincts.
‘By embarking on what Becker refers to as an ‘immortality project’, in which a person creates or becomes part of something which they feel will last forever, the person feels they too have become part of something eternal; something that will never die, compared to their physical body that will die one day’. When this ‘immortality project’ is threatened it leads inevitably to fear, depression, loss of identity and sense of purpose.
In that case, the initial reaction of the fans to the imminent demise of Rangers was entirely predictable and understandable. “No way, this can’t happen to us, we are the people”. However, as soon as the full realisation of their club’s inexorable slide into liquidation began to sink in, came the expected anger. But towards whom should their righteous wrath be directed?
“Who did this to us, who are these people?” they cried. “Not I”, said Sir Murray of the Mint, “for I was duped”, “Nor I”, said President Ogilvie, “for it was never my role”. “Nor I”, said Mr Smith, “for I never knew nothing or nothing”. “Not us”, squealed the media monkeys in unison, “for that’s what we were told”, “Nor us”, said the SPL “it was nothing to do with us”.
“Who then?, we demand to know who these people are”, howled the horrified hordes. “T’was the Whyte knight”, they all concurred, “he alone caused this calamity”. “And the bampots”, sneered the slimy slug. “And the taxman”, puffed the pundits. “And the unseen hand of Mr Lawwell”, whispered the bilious bears from the safety of their den.
There were even those who tried to warn them, not least Hugh Adam, Phil Mac and RTC but they didn’t want to know. Even when their very own Messrs Green and Traynor spelt out, in no uncertain terms, that liquidation meant the death of their club, still they chose wilful ignorance. The MSM, with access to the same information, encouraged them to keep their heads firmly ensconced, ostrich stylee, on the banks of that ironically blue and white river in Egypt. Which just goes to show ‘you can lead a lamb to knowledge but you can’t make it think’
The point though is that the Rangers fans have heard the truth and once you have heard something you cannot unhear it. Even if you reject it, even if you deny it, it gnaws away at the back of your mind, infecting your subconscious.
Almost a year ago, I posted the following on TSFM. http://theinternetbampot.wordpress.com/2012/09/ in which I postulated that the SFA were too frightened to say anything which might imply that The Rangers were a new club.
Looking back at that post, I am amazed at how little the landscape has changed.
A year on and it has become apparent that the corporate cancer that destroyed Rangers has continued to metastasize in its new host. Charlotte’s revelations may have shown us that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than we first suspected. However, in my humble opinion, the information provided has only succeeded in ‘poisoning the well’ and deflecting attention from the main culprits in this disaster. Layer upon layer of complexity has been added to an already opaque story and the majority of her utterances appear designed to engage the more enquiring minds on this forum and consume their excess mental energy.
I know that some people are bored with this ‘debate’ but, to my mind, the single most important step for the redemption of Scottish football is the fan’s acceptance that The Rangers, who currently ply their trade in the SPFL First Division, are a new club. Once they have accepted that then everything else that they perceive has happened to them will begin to make sense. They will see that rather than everyone having a fly kick at them when they were down, most were actually trying to help them. It will also dawn on them that the very people who have been telling them that there is an anti-Rangers conspiracy against them are actually the same ones who are screwing them over.
Rangers were not relegated to div 3, The Rangers applied as a new club and were granted entry into the bottom tier of Scottish football. They are not banned from European competition, merely ineligible as a new club without the requisite financial ‘history’. Any reference to ‘rulings’ from ECA, ASA, the BBC Trust and any internal or so-called ‘independent’ enquiries are completely irrelevant, as none of these bodies are the final arbiter in this case. Scots Law is clear that there is no distinction between club and company after incorporation, when the company dies the club dies with it. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.
Sooner or later The Rangers fans are going to realise this fact and when they do, there will be hell to pay. Until they do, their new club can never become truly cleansed. Only then can they move on and only then can they join together with fans of other clubs to root out the real cancer at the heart of Scottish football. That’s why the MSM and the SFA are still petrified to say anything. In the meantime the real creators of this disaster are sneakily positioning themselves further and further away from the scene of the crime.
I am sure the majority of us would happily accept a new Rangers, cleansed of its financial, emotional and supremacist baggage. A club that all decent Rangers fans could support without feeling any guilt about Rangers downfall or that they were being taken for mugs. The prospect of a new dawn in Scottish football, where sporting integrity took primacy and clubs lived within their means was very real. However, as usual the SFA couldn’t miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The truth is that Scottish football is in the state it is in, not because Rangers died but because those with the power and mandate to effect the prognosis sat back and did nothing. I am sure that they believe that ‘time heals all wounds’ and that the longer this injustice is allowed to stand the more likely it will be accepted by the man in the street. No doubt the authorities feel it is in the national interest to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’. However I cannot accept this. I believe that it is vital that we are able to face up to reality so we can move on for the benefit of all football supporters.
Scottish football is at a crossroads right now, I think we all feel it. Rampant corruption has become so mainstream that many of our fellow supporters have began to accept this as the norm. However, it just doesn’t sit right with me and I suspect that many regular contributors and readers of this blog feel likewise.
We have quite lost our way and we live in a society which spends vast amounts of money paying people like Jack Irvine to ensure that we stay lost. The mainstream media treat us like little imbeciles and demand that we conform to their assumed ‘professional superiority’. The PR machine plays up to our stereotypes and feeds our fantasies while the poorest people pay to swallow their poisonous propaganda and relentless trivia.
So what can we do ? Clearly, battering out a few blog posts and strongly worded letters to the various authorities involved has been rewarded by the square root of FA.
How can we make this an opportunity for growth rather than contributing to the destruction of Scottish football ? It is not good enough to tear down a system unless we have a better system to replace it. However, I believe that it is not the system itself which is broken. It is that those charged with administering the system are hopelessly corrupted, hugely conflicted and unable to apply their rules without fear or favour.
By their incapacity and inaction (wilful or otherwise) the SFA have facilitated a motley crew of various spivs, chancers and con-artists to glean the last few meagre pickings from the bones of the emaciated loyal supporters of this new club purporting to be the once mighty Rangers. They have permitted these ne’er-do-wells to collectively appropriate many tens of millions of pounds from the Rangers fans, the creditors and the public purse. They have already allowed this corporate malignancy to spread to a new host, ‘The Rangers’, and the absence of ‘moral hazard’ makes it more likely that the disease will continue to spread.
Benjamin Franklin once said, “‘Nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”
Someone else once said, “The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it’s just sort of a tired feeling.”
I sense that we are all beginning to get tired of this. It is time to stand together, all football fans, face the facts and direct our anger against the officers of the SFA who have allowed this sham to develop into a catastrophe.
I have no doubt that my humble opinions expressed here will raise the ire of many deluded souls. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that the only people who get mad at you for speaking the truth are those that are living a lie.
RIP Big Man.
First let me say I think the planned formal approach to the Celtic Board has been well crafted and is absolutely the right thing to do on behalf of all the Scottish Football community.
I think the biggest issue it faces is one of conflict of interest.
This was caused by Celtic (and other clubs) being fully complicit in the rule bending actions by Messrs Doncaster Regan and Longmuir and there will be a buch of stuff none of them want becoming public.
I hope I’m wrong but think it will be interesting to see what Celtic try to do to sideline and or stop any momentum getting behind the motion.
Good luck guys.
Finloch says:
September 28, 2013 at 8:19 am
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You have a good point there.
The fact that Ogilvie was ‘elected’ unopposed gives me cause for concern, there is something rotten in the state of Hampden, and Celtic may have been party to it.
Sometimes the answers to questions are unpalatable but we can only (and need to) ask the question.
Drew Peacock says:
September 27, 2013 at 8:26 pm
RyanGosling says:
September 27, 2013 at 8:12 pm
. The only note of caution I’d sound to Celtic in this regard is that if they ever plan to utilise this facility in the ordinary BAU course of a season, they should be wary given the financial state of the Co-op that the facility may be pulled at short notice, or the terms changed. If I were them, I’d bank with a more stable entity.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“More stable entity” – Err every last one of them is stable because when they get into trouble you and I give them stability by underwriting their bad business practices and resulting losses. From my pocket and yours via the government straight to theirs.
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Thank goodness Rangers don’t have any banking facilities or that would be something else they would have to worry about. Just think if they had a bank and it went bust it could adversely affect the financial situation at Ibrox 😈
Thank goodness there is at least one Journalist out there prepared to call it as it is.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-fans-torn-between-rebel-and-light-blue-sea-1-3116658
Undecided Rangers shareholders who have been paying close attention to the hustings so far are likely to approach the power struggle at the Ibrox club’s forthcoming annual meeting with a deep yearning for a sudden declaration of candidature by a third party.
The two factions presently on the ballot paper must seem to the non-aligned about as attractive as rutting wart-hogs.
On one hand, a sitting board of directors whose imaginative response to the threat of usurpation appears to have been limited to the hiring of a PR company with a reputation for smearing opponents through liberal use of all available media outlets, from the club’s own to the social networks of the worldwide web.
On the other, a band of would-be revolutionaries whose nominated “leader”, Jim McColl, is a billionaire who has stated that he has no intention in the near future of investing any money in Rangers or playing so much as a minor role in the governance of the company.
For voters at the AGM, the election is likely to represent an invitation to choose the less harmful of the two. With the big event still at least a month off, there will be a bone-chilling number of opportunities for further demonstrations from both sides of the kind of infantile, risible and, in certain instances, sordid attempts at points-scoring that have been witnessed in recent times.
For example, Paul Murray, the poster boy of the group agitating for reform of the board, including the removal of what may be called the office bearers – chief executive Craig Mather and finance director Brian Stockbridge, as well as director Bryan Smart – this week made a call for “transparency” from the directors by demanding the release of the identities of the people behind two companies who have invested in Rangers, Blue Pitch Holdings and Margarita Holdings.
As a shareholder himself, Murray will be perfectly aware of his right to obtain this information simply by asking for it. He may then go public with it, although it is impossible to fathom why the names of those behind the holding companies should be of any import.
Murray’s attempted capture of the headlines was sufficiently pathetic to reinforce the impression – formed over the past three years – that his principal credential as a prospective saviour of an ailing institution is that he is a genuine, lifelong fan.
Even so, the general weakness of his profile did not prevent the voice of one red-top from declaring his endorsement of Murray and his simultaneous condemnation of the PR company, Media House, and its busiest representative, Jack Irvine.
The latter, himself a former tabloid editor, was roasted for his readiness to blacken the names of his employers’ opponents with some lacerating postings on Twitter. This reprehension of Media House was a startling renunciation of the paper’s previous accommodating policy towards the company.
This willing collusion obtained in the days when MH’s primary objectives were the scandalous portrayal of the Celtic managing director, Fergus McCann, as some kind of villainous incompetent and the absurd promotion of David Murray, the Rangers owner, as an entrepreneurial and financial genius.
That they could have been proved by subsequent events to have been so grotesquely and blatantly mischievous in their persecution of McCann and their miscasting of Murray would, of course, be a matter of complete indifference, as long as their fees were paid. It will be recalled, however, that their propaganda campaign was so successful that Celtic supporters actually booed McCann as he unfurled the league championship flag on the opening day of the 1998-99 season, an ineradicable testament to their shameful gullibility.
I see that Mullah Graham is no longer welcome at the Govan Taleban HQ, He’s even too militant for them.
How ironic.
I remember my very first post on RTC,it was a response to a post that was sympathetic to the “good fans”.
I can’t remember my post verbatim,but I can remember how it finished.
I said that I hope they die and and then we can speak about them like a disease we found a cure for.
After watching what has happened since that post I realize that I have not changed my opinion one iota.
140 and stopped counting.
Wee twitter rumour that James Traynor may be on his way oot.
Finloch says:
September 28, 2013 at 8:19 am
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Should the Celtic Board attempt to deaf ear the proposal it will be interesting to see how the media play it. On the one hand they clearly don’t want to highlight the potential for Rangers being wrongly awarded a European Licence – they have had ample opportunity to do so and chose not to. On the other hand they love nothing more than reporting friction at the Celtic AGM, but to criticise the Celtic Board on this occasion would mean having to highlight the resolution in front of them. Perhaps they will all be away at the toilet when this one is discussed.
Lord Wobbly says:
September 28, 2013 at 12:39 am
‘ Ally McCoist on Friday night revealed he has taken a wage cut in a bid to help Rangers slash costs.
The Ibrox boss and his management team have agreed to a reduction in their salaries amid fears much of the £22million raised last December through an institutional share issue has been wiped out.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2436100/Ally-McCoist-takes-Rangers-pay-cut.html
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I have the funny feeling that Ally’s pay-cut may be less to do with cutting the Ibrox running costs than positioning himself to keep his job no matter who wins the boardroom war.
Despite recent good results on the pitch there is a very large section of the Bears still calling for Ally to get the chop and that must be very worrying.
But how can you take anyone seriously who states: ‘People forget that when I became manager of the club someone put a contract in front of me and I just signed it as simple as that.
‘I didn’t even look at it, to be quite honest with you. I didn’t look at wages or length of contract, I just said: “I’m signing that because it’s what I want to do’.
What an absolute roaster of a man ❗
Drew Peacock says:
September 27, 2013 at 11:18 pm
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Because the end game depends on events taking place, “due course” and all that….. If someone is going to rob a bank but this information is released before they complete the job, they will most likely not rob the bank, or at least the one that was mentioned.
Your question is valid and those doubts have existed from the very start, they still exist and that is why every release is logged, scrutinized and then attached to the jigsaw. Unlike a normal jigsaw puzzle, the final picture was not known at the start, much clearer now though.
Ex-Liverpool chief Christian Purslow lined up for key role at Ibrox
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ex-liverpool-chief-christian-purslow-lined-2314045
Interesting moves from the McColl Camp ❗
Danish Pastry says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:03 am
Wee twitter rumour that James Traynor may be on his way oot.
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He probably started it!
Danish Pastry says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:03 am
3 0 Rate This
Wee twitter rumour that James Traynor may be on his way oot.
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more cash needed then…for jabba’s silence and pay off ?
those solicitors must be coining it in.
has chuckles got a share of the solicitors firm?
“There were terrorist threats to the castle and our boss and we have had to have anti-terrorist training.”
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/court-humiliation-ex-rangers-owner-craig-2314008
Jeesuz thing truly are serious when a housekeeper and cook has to get anti-terrorist training along with their Boss Wee Craigie 😯
upthehoops says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:31 am
Danish Pastry says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:03 am
Wee twitter rumour that James Traynor may be on his way oot.
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He probably started it!
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It’s just a clever ploy to lull Irvine into a false sense of security 😆
ecobhoy says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:24 am
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Oh dear Keith…
I love all this “A London source” stuff, I don’t have time to comment about how this guy came to be famous and popular with Liverpool fans but his name dropping seems to fit a bit too nicely….
upthehoops says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:07 am
Finloch says:
September 28, 2013 at 8:19 am
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Should the Celtic Board attempt to deaf ear the proposal it will be interesting to see how the media play it. On the one hand they clearly don’t want to highlight the potential for Rangers being wrongly awarded a European Licence – they have had ample opportunity to do so and chose not to. On the other hand they love nothing more than reporting friction at the Celtic AGM, but to criticise the Celtic Board on this occasion would mean having to highlight the resolution in front of them. Perhaps they will all be away at the toilet when this one is discussed.
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I share your views on the Celtic board’s dilemma here. I could be reading the signs incorrectly but the meticulous care which has been taken by those putting forward the resolution to the Celtic AGM to ensure its inclusion on the order of business suggests that they too might be on the same page as you.
One positive thing that may emerge from this initiative is that Auldheid’s dogged pursuit of this argument will be given a platform for debate outside of the Bampot Realm. It may be interesting to hear a counter argument which does not involve the words “shut up” and the sound of a phone being disconnected.
The downside is that if the resolution is passed and acted upon, the story will become about “Celtic kicking Rangers when they are down”. My view on this has always been that fear of adverse publicity should not dissuade any club from looking after the interests of its fans and shareholders. If Celtic are forced to break cover as a consequence of this, the response of other clubs to any such press campaign will be indicative of the collective attitude of Scottish football to the licencing issue.
Cynic that I am though, I expect the resolution to receive minimum time for discussion and a defeat on a vote count without a show of hands. That may be a risky move given the feelings of fans, but I believe that football officialdom in general, and the Celtic contingent in particular, are between a rock and a hard place over this.
However it all turns out, Auldheid and his associates deserve the thanks of the rest of us for their attempts to get the truth out there.
Some of you guys maybe a bit harsh on the leaders of sevconia ,not sure of the exact percentage but a new start business failing in the first year is pretty damn high maybe in the high 80,s.when this one goes under not sure what the next one is but they,ll get it right in the end.
TSFM says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:46 am
Congratulations to Auldheid and co for an excellent piece of work. As you say, at the very least the arguments will be raised in a formal setting. However, given the background, and the vanishingly small probability that the various members of the various boards were not fully aware of what and why things went on they way they did, I expect the Celtic Board response will be very short:
“The Board of Celtic, and the Company’s officers have acted in the best interests of the Company and the Shareholders at all times, can we now proceed to a vote”
ecobhoy says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:07 am
11 1 Rate This
But how can you take anyone seriously who states: ‘People forget that when I became manager of the club someone put a contract in front of me and I just signed it as simple as that.
‘I didn’t even look at it, to be quite honest with you. I didn’t look at wages or length of contract, I just said: “I’m signing that because it’s what I want to do’.
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I’ll wager that he recites that wee anecdote to each and every player as he leads them into the signing cupboard.
Some excellant stuff over the last 24hrs ,playing catch up and will need to read back over some of the comments ,one from SSB comment from last night re end of programme ,”after al it is all about opinions” Hugh the difference here is you can have ,Well informed opinions and ill informed opinions” I will let you apply what is what to pundit v caller.
Will the board use a conflict of interest now that PL is on the SFA board to get out of responding to the resolution?
TSFM says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:46 am
upthehoops says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:07 am
and others
…………………………
Auldheid does indeed deserve our collective thanks.
One sad and telling fact is that no journalist has picked up on his resolution so far.
Not just the mainstream but also even the informed bloggers like James Forrest.
Many of them read this site so they know about it and it would make a superb story.
Celtic will monitor this site and know it is coming so will already have a plan to deal with it too. (quickly and with minimum fuss I’d agree)
I’d say having been fully complicit (with the other clubs) to the original decisions they don’t want the subsequent bunglings to become public domain.
And they will want any financial settlements agreed between the clubs in the aftermath kept secret.
Well done Auldheid. Your resolution leaves the board no hiding place. They either accept the resolution or reveal publicly that they are indeed complicit in all sfa actions.
Can Jim expect a complaint to be made. very likely 😀
Jim Delahunt @JimDelahunt 1 Nov
Woolworths, Rangers, RBS, Savile and now Comet. Childhood finally wiped out. Hang in there Scooby Doo.
So Charles Green could have had Ally McCoist as manager for a packet of soor plooms and a copy of the Beano, per annum as far as McCoist was aware or concerned. Just his sheer good fortune (literally) that he ended up with £700,000 plus shares or however much exactly!
Is it possible that he is telling the truth – just leaving out the bit that his agent / solicitor had read over and negotiated the contract before it was passed to him for signing?
Is he being manipulative with the truth, or is he gormless? And yes, ‘both’ is a possible answer.
Danish Pastry says:
September 28, 2013 at 8:12 am
6 0 Rate This
borussiabeefburg says:
September 28, 2013 at 1:05 am
20 1 Rate This
Sad day for me: the Warriors are going to the home ground of a club which tried to punt them out the league almost 50 years ago, yet they will probably take their biggest away support outside of Stirlingshire for many a year.
Most Stenhousemuir fans seem oblivious to the facts.
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Crazy. To anyone thinking of spending their hard-earned on attending Ibrox I would urge them to stop, think and donate the money to a more worthy cause..given the NHS would have lost out significantly when Rangers flushed their multi-million debt down the pan,how about the cancer unit at your local hospital or the Scottish Ambulance Service?
nowoldandgrumpy says:
September 28, 2013 at 10:37 am
Looking forward to some of my more rabid Celtic chums, singing we are JIm Delahunt…
….. without choking!
TSFM says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:46 am
The downside is that if the resolution is passed and acted upon, the story will become about “Celtic kicking Rangers when they are down”.
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I reckon you are bang on the money here. If the media are forced to report it I’m sure the theme will be ‘for heavens sake can’t we just move on’ rather than asking if any wrongdoing did take place. I guess the best place for this to end up would be the Court of Arbitration for Sport, but I would imagine that could only happen if Celtic are really willing to pursue it. Going back to the media, why don’t they want football to be as clean as it possibly can be?
upthehoops says:
September 28, 2013 at 10:45 am
TSFM says:
September 28, 2013 at 9:46 am
The downside is that if the resolution is passed and acted upon, the story will become about “Celtic kicking Rangers when they are down”.
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I reckon you are bang on the money here. If the media are forced to report it I’m sure the theme will be ‘for heavens sake can’t we just move on’ rather than asking if any wrongdoing did take place. I guess the best place for this to end up would be the Court of Arbitration for Sport, but I would imagine that could only happen if Celtic are really willing to pursue it. Going back to the media, why don’t they want football to be as clean as it possibly can be?
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Because as far as the media are concerned it has never been about the welfare of Scottish Football, only the survival of some entity from Govan.
It truly makes me sick to my stomach.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
September 28, 2013 at 10:37 am
2 0 Rate This
Can Jim expect a complaint to be made. very likely
Jim Delahunt @JimDelahunt 1 Nov
Woolworths, Rangers, RBS, Savile and now Comet. Childhood finally wiped out. Hang in there Scooby Doo.
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That’s from last November. Yes?
LW @ 10:56 am
But on SSB last night JD felt the need to state the time on a Friday night and go along with BFDJ and the obnoxious HK that it was only callers who agreed with their opinion that were going to be allowed to speak. Although the phone-in is awful 😉 it is good to hear them suffer especially BFDJ, he has taken over from Darrell King being the ‘fan with a mike’, the image of him coughing , spluttering and denying all that is true about his beloved club/company makes me smile …………… Makes doing the ironing a little more pleasant!!!!
As I live in Spain, I decided to follow this up.
A Spanish Google search produced only the original article, so it doesn’t seem to be lifted from a newspaper.
Browsing the rest of that blog, it appears to be written by an Argentinian Rangers fan (perhaps originally attracted by the Claudio Caniggia connection?) who watches the matches on Sky and writes his own match reports.
Just goes to show, it takes all sorts. 🙂
The Spanish is very well written. The translation does have a clear relationship, but it is obviously computer generated and shows the typical limitations of a literal word-for-word translation.
Lord Wobbly says:
September 28, 2013 at 10:56 am
2 0 Rate This
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Sorry, yes just noticed that as it was a retweet.
😳
Edit
john clarke says:
September 28, 2013 at 2:59 am
Auldheid says:
September 27, 2013 at 11:10 pm
‘….I understand the resolution has passed legal inspection and will find its way on to the Celtic AGM agenda.
I have no idea of the stance Celtic will take but this is due process being applied;..’
Drew Peacock says:
September 27, 2013 at 11:31 pm
‘..Oh come on – you can do better than that. We all know which way this will go.’
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It would be helpful if anyone knew of any precedent for this kind of action by a supporters’ group.
Because this could be a defining moment.
Supporters, as such, have no power to require Uefa to take action to investigate malfeasance or general buggering-about by a National association.As I understand legals to say, they have no’ locus’ in the matter.
But clubs are very susceptible to influence by their own ticket paying base.And there lies the ‘locus’ of fan power.
Celtic have in recent years been ready to listen to, and hold dialogue , with their fan base as represented by the Celtic Supporters’ Associations and the Celtic Trust.
The Celtic Board ( on which, I need hardly say, I do not sit!) have a respectful attitude to the seriously considered position of sensible people reflecting the democratically decided views of those supporters’ organisations.
Now, it would seem to me that
a) where there is a huge groundswell of , not just ‘Celtic’ but of general Scottish football opinion, that serious questions have to be asked about the Administration of the game by the National Association,
and b) where the Board of any club is being hard pressed by its own fans to exercise, on their behalf, its rights under UEFA rules to have these questions asked in the appropriate forum,
that that Board would have to find pretty cogent, and convincing , reasons for refusing to do so.
If it is indeed the case that the Trust’s motion will be on the agenda, it is my expectation that the debate on that motion will allow the Celtic Board the opportunity to accept that
the motion is sound,
and is entirely justified (by the responsibiilty they have to their supporter/ shareholders, and the wider football world
and therefore yield to the motion, rather than talk it down and outvote its acceptance.
We will get an indication of the Board’s response to the motion in the AGM’s agenda.
The response will have to be open and honest.
And there can be nothing more open and honest than acknowledging that the motion is sound in itself.
The question then is whether, ultimately, adopting the motion is in the best interests of the shareholders
.
You and I know that ‘Truth’ is ultimately in the best interests of everybody, including shareholders.
My view has aye been that Celtic had and has no more duty or right than any other club to accept any leadership role in challenging the irregularity of the SFA and SFL.
But, they do have some kind of legal duty to respond to their shareholder supporters ( and a moral/business duty to listen to their non-shareholder supporters/customers).
And this may be the chance of a breakthrough.
The Celtic Board may very well decide that a shareholder resolution to be debated and voted upon at an AGM, as being in the best interests of the shareholders, allows them the ‘political’ leeway not to vote against it.
In accepting the motion, they would be reflecting the wishes of their shareholders.
Unlike some new company .
Who knows?
But it could be very interesting
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I have picked up on your post to respond but I’ll try and cover others’ points too.
First on your own point John about the defining moment. I really hope so. My hope is the message this sends out to the SFA is you ARE accountable, even though it takes a while for you to be brought to account. Indeed this is the stated intent of the author of the resolution during forum debates and a bit more on that later.
On using this AGM process it has always been there to raise issues. Indeed I remember Celtic Chairman John Reid at an AGM making that very point and that stuck. The CST have done a great job on raising issues on behalf of shareholding supporters/supporters and Celtic definitely listen, even if they cannot act.
The CST advised the author (Canalamar of CQN) on the process for presenting a resolution at the AGM and instead of pounding the keys he acted. He also discovered the responsibilities of the CFCB of UEFA and that was new. The early drafts contained contentious stuff but this was removed over time in response to points raised on forums to keep the resolution’s objective on track – to make the SFA realise they are accountable to all supporters via there clubs. There was a struggle to meet the required number of signatures but then another active player (Morrisey 123) turned up to help on the ground and that made all the difference to making things happen. These two guys did this not me.
I have always tried to return focus on the UEFA licence issue because I see reform of the SFA as essential for the good of our game because only an accountable organisation can act without fear or favour – for if there is no fear (of being brought to account) then it can hand out favours as it pleases.
The lack of smsm ability to see and report the bigger picture re SFA is puzzling, but Phil Mac Giolla Bhain has been very active on this issue and keep an eye on James Forrest’s site.
I have every confidence that Celtic will act with probity on this issue one of the clubs in Scotland who have tried to work professionally to a sustainable business plan for years, whilst others blagged the trophies under unprofessional governance from the national association.
Whether we will ever know the full extent or will see the impact immediately on the SFA is another matter.
Speak softly wield big stick.
Brenda says:
September 28, 2013 at 11:12 am
==========================================
I tortured myself with 20 minutes of Radio Clyde last night while getting ready to go out. I rarely listen these days but it’s amazing how little things change:
– Hugh Keevins was determined to portray Celtic’s loss to Morton as a terrible, terrible embarrassment and one the worst things ever to happen to the club. Any Celtic fan who says otherwise is a liar according to Hugh.
– Hugh also agreed, unwittingly or otherwise, with a complete idiot of a caller that Ian Black was punished simply as a warning to others who the SFA know about but have purposely not taken to task
– The standard of caller was utterly appalling and is a clear reflection on the show itself.
I recall a poster on here once saying Radio Clyde Superscoreboard is an insult to good manners. How apt.
BigGav says:
September 28, 2013 at 11:12 am
“…John clarke says:
September 28, 2013 at 3:28 am………”
—-
Thanks for that, Big Gav.
I have heard it said that Argentinian Spanish is more rigororously classical and beautiful than the Spanish spoken in Spain.
And I find it in my heart to say good on the lonely Argentinian Rangers fan!
Brenda @ 11.12am
Not sure about the ironing but I agree with the rest of your post.
On SSB last night HK stated near the end that he would not be bullied by callers into stating that the club playing in Govan were a new club. A complete reversal of reality and a mockery of the threats to Jim Spence.
gc58 says:
September 28, 2013 at 12:50 pm
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Brenda @ 11.12am
Not sure about the ironing but I agree with the rest of your post.
On SSB last night HK stated near the end that he would not be bullied by callers into stating that the club playing in Govan were a new club. A complete reversal of reality and a mockery of the threats to Jim Spence.
——————————————————
HK is also saying that he will cagoule all those who are of the view that Rangers Football Club Ltd (in liquidation) are dead.
SSB has become a propaganda piece for the apologists for RFC.
There are norms in society – necessary to keep things all together. One of the norms is if you do not pay your debts there are penalties. The penalty in this instance (sadly) is that a football club dies – as a result of mismanagement,
Radio Clyde have an obligation to allow both sides of the debate to receive air time.
Long Time Lurker says:
September 28, 2013 at 1:02 pm
Radio Clyde have an obligation to allow both sides of the debate to receive air time.
=++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
Radio Clyde’s only obligation is to increase profits and return it to the shareholders. They do this by creating contoversy (often false) which increases the audience thus generating more advertising revenue. There is more promotional stuff during the show than ever before.
Long Time Lurker @ 1:02pm
Radio Clyde have an obligation to allow both sides of the debate to receive air time.
Not sure I agree with this. If anything, Radio Clyde’s only obligation is to its advertisers. As long as it stays within the law it can pretty well say what it likes.
That’s why I believe that the only real weapon against them is simply not to listen and not to allow them to set the agenda.
Every time anyone posts anything anywhere about how unfair or biased they are being this gives them exactly what they want. They can point to those things and say to their advertisers “Look. All these people are listening.”
No audience. No advertisers. No revenue. No programme.
What Drew said! 😀
Drew Peacock says:
September 28, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Radio Clyde’s only obligation is to increase profits and return it to the shareholders. They do this by creating contoversy (often false) which increases the audience thus generating more advertising revenue. There is more promotional stuff during the show than ever before.
===============================================
That’s why I no longer listen, save for the odd 20 minutes like last night. Mind you, the fantasy land views of Derek Johnstone are always good for a laugh.
upthehoops on September 28, 2013 at 12:15 pm
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Brenda says:
September 28, 2013 at 11:12 am
==========================================
I tortured myself with 20 minutes of Radio Clyde last night while getting ready to go out. I rarely listen these days but it’s ….
…—… …—… …—…
The show is an absolute joke. Better listening to some decent music whilst getting the glad rags on. HK is quite possibly the most ignorant little man ever to broadcast.
Keevins tries to be controversial like some American shock jock who,I’m sure he thinks are pretty neat.Instead he just comes across as a nasal nonentity.
Fair points made on the right of Radio Clyde to protect their own self interest.
Perhaps OFCOM may take a different view. Rule 5.13 of their broadcasting code notes:
The prevention of undue prominence of views and opinions on matters of political or industrial controversy and matters relating to current public policy
(Rule 5.13 applies to local radio services (including community radio services), local digital sound programme services (including community digital sound programme services) and radio licensable content services.)
5.13 Broadcasters should not give undue prominence to the views and opinions of particular persons or bodies on matters of political or industrial controversy and matters relating to current public policy in all the programmes included in any service (listed above) taken as a whole.
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/broadcast-codes/broadcast-code/impartiality/
I argue that the authorities treatment of Rangers post liquidation falls within the scope of public policy.
Long Time Lurker says:
September 28, 2013 at 3:14 pm
Fair points made on the right of Radio Clyde to protect their own self interest.
Perhaps OFCOM may take a different view. Rule 5.13 of their broadcasting code notes:
The prevention of undue prominence of views and opinions on matters of political or industrial controversy and matters relating to current public policy
(Rule 5.13 applies to local radio services (including community radio services), local digital sound programme services (including community digital sound programme services) and radio licensable content services.)
5.13 Broadcasters should not give undue prominence to the views and opinions of particular persons or bodies on matters of political or industrial controversy and matters relating to current public policy in all the programmes included in any service (listed above) taken as a whole.
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/broadcast-codes/broadcast-code/impartiality/
I argue that the authorities treatment of Rangers post liquidation falls within the scope of public policy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I believe you could argue that but you won’t win.
SSB talking up ‘forces day’ at ibrox second half start being somewhat delayed!!!!!
Weird scenes at the Trongate today. A group of sevco-clad protestors, protesting against Belfast’s decision to not fly a Union Jack every day.
Maybe that’s a good cause. Who am I to decry any group’s right to demonstrate.
But outside known Celtic pubs ? During a Celtic game ? How did those twenty people get permission for that ? Who on Glasgow City Council sanctions such provocation ?
But the response, as I witnesed, was to stand away and laugh. It worked for Cory Aquino and it could work for us reasonable fans. No headlines there Jack.
‘Sandy’ who orchestrated the ibrox banner protest doesn’t want ‘rangers’ to ‘die’ again!!!!
Auldheid
I admire your perseverance and you have certainly uncovered a nest of worms. But the unintended consequences of what you propose will ensure this motion is quickly dispensed with.
If the SFA were found to have breached UEFA’s rules, the consequence would be isolation for Scottish football and a suspension from European football for all Scottish clubs for a minimum of 5 years.
The greater good is served by moving on. An injustice was done but, like Rangers, it’s history. Justice will be done shortly as the current incumbents of Ibrox run out of cash and the tribute act plays its final gig.
Rangers are dead, Sevco are dying, let’s get on with life instead of letting a host of past injustices, real and perceived, clutter up the highways and byways of Scottish football. There is so much good in Scottish football at present that we cannot allow the poison seeping from Edmiston Drive to hold sway.
Delbhoy says:
September 28, 2013 at 4:59 pm
—————–
was a crowd there last week too before celtics home game against st. Johnstone. apologies for off topic-ness
The AGM resolution might be deftly ‘dealt with’ without any specific outcome.
However, it’s certainly a worthwhile exercise regardless.
It demonstrates the perserverance and resourcefulness of football supporters to address issues they feel strongly about – e.g. SFA incompetence and/or corruption. There are plenty of Internet Bampots out there who know what they are talking about – and probably know the rules better than the SFA itself.
Also, this resolution demonstrates the creativity of certain motivated individuals who are like a dog with a bone – and will not back down in their search for the truth.
Hopefully the SFA will take notice and will be a lot more careful when applying the rules for any TRFC v0.2 – and they know their every move will be scrutinised and challenged by the informed fans.
Slimshady
I have agonised over this from liquidation day, I believe now , I & most others will only be able to move on when the undeniable liquidation is recognised and the new club admits it was established in 2012 not 1872 and history shows they are going for their second title in a row giving them the grand total of….. 2 with a likely Ramsdens cup to follow. For any Scottish football officials / journalists looking in, pay heed, it will allow football in this country to “move on “
Long Time Lurker says:
September 28, 2013 at 1:02 pm
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gc58 says:
September 28, 2013 at 12:50 pm
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Brenda @ 11.12am
Not sure about the ironing but I agree with the rest of your post.
On SSB last night HK stated near the end that he would not be bullied by callers into stating that the club playing in Govan were a new club. A complete reversal of reality and a mockery of the threats to Jim Spence.
——————————————————
HK is also saying that he will cagoule all those who are of the view that Rangers Football Club Ltd (in liquidation) are dead.
SSB has become a propaganda piece for the apologists for RFC.
There are norms in society – necessary to keep things all together. One of the norms is if you do not pay your debts there are penalties. The penalty in this instance (sadly) is that a football club dies – as a result of mismanagement,
Radio Clyde have an obligation to allow both sides of the debate to receive air time.
___________________________________________________________________________
Shocking one-sided views by all at SSB, refuse to listen to the demise of the South-side shower and I will never tune in again!
Edit
StevieBC says:
September 28, 2013 at 5:59 pm
“…Hopefully the SFA will take notice and will be a lot more careful when applying the rules for any TRFC v0.2 – and they know their every move will be scrutinised and challenged by the informed fans..”
—-
It would be nice to think so.
But dogs return to their vomit, and an unpunished criminal will give two fingers to the law in the hope and expectation that he’ will get away with repeat performances.
If , or when (as the anxiety-ridden Speirs, Jackson and Kenny Mac clearly fear, judging by their excitable discussion tonight) the new club hits the skids and enters Administration, the footballing authorities will be in exactly the same position as they were when RFC(IA) went bust- and will be driven to adopt the same deceitful measures to engineer another spurious club into SFA and SPFL membership.
No, the SFA must be brought to book.
We cannot continue to allow them to live a lie.
slimshady61 says:
September 28, 2013 at 5:40 pm
In a conversation today I was saying it could be a dead heat between the past and the present in terms of what brings about SFA reform and that is the issue, not anything to do with Rangers (as you say they are possibly doomed again).
The fate of RIFC may play its part but that is a side show. The show is honest football and honest governing.
The idea that UEFA would sanction innocent Scottish clubs who adhered to Fair Play principles is not only highly unlikely given the policy is UEFA’s flagship, but I would imagine be open to legal challenge by the innocent clubs.
No, more likely is an insistence on better governance by for example the simple device of making membership of the national association subject to and conditional on meeting licensing criteria. No licence no membership, remove or narrow down the discretion element so that it is harder to grant than threading a needle with boxing gloves. Define roles and responsibilities, make the whole set up more professional.
The aim is SFA accountability, one way or another, for without it the game will not move on.
Edit
Did the TUPE rules apply when the team from Govan commenced liquidation?
Do these rules apply to a company that remains the same company?
I think not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Undertakings_(Protection_of_Employment)_Regulations_2006
Sorry if this link doesn’t work but it is Saturday.
john clarke says:
September 28, 2013 at 6:54 pm
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StevieBC says:
September 28, 2013 at 5:59 pm
“…Hopefully the SFA will take notice and will be a lot more careful when applying the rules for any TRFC v0.2 – and they know their every move will be scrutinised and challenged by the informed fans..”
—-
It would be nice to think so.
But dogs return to their vomit…
=========================
Thanks for sharing that mental image jc…
Agreed, I am being optimistic but I can’t imagine that the SFA would simply be as blatantly corrupt as they where last year when dealing with the newco.
The fans – and even the MSM – are much more informed now, and if the SFA did try and accommodate another Govan club version, then that in itself could trigger Armageddon, and ‘walking away’ to a significant extent.
And to contradict myself: when has the SFA acted in a rational manner wrt to the Govan club…? 🙄
Auldheid
Read Slim’s post very carefully, I think PL is test driving some lines for the AGM!
slimshady61 says:
September 28, 2013 at 5:40 pm
Hugh Keevins once said that if he found out something scandalous about Scottish Football, he would not print it because of the damage it might cause. very disappointed to see you adopting that position. In other circumstances, it could be described as conspiring to defeat the ends of justice….
Auldheid says:
September 28, 2013 at 7:07 pm
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slimshady61 says:
September 28, 2013 at 5:40 pm
In a conversation today I was saying it could be a dead heat between the past and the present in terms of what brings about SFA reform and that is the issue, not anything to do with Rangers (as you say they are possibly doomed again).
The fate of RIFC may play its part but that is a side show. The show is honest football and honest governing.
The idea that UEFA would sanction innocent Scottish clubs who adhered to Fair Play principles is not only highly unlikely given the policy is UEFA’s flagship, but I would imagine be open to legal challenge by the innocent clubs.
No, more likely is an insistence on better governance by for example the simple device of making membership of the national association subject to and conditional on meeting licensing criteria. No licence no membership, remove or narrow down the discretion element so that it is harder to grant than threading a needle with boxing gloves. Define roles and responsibilities, make the whole set up more professional.
The aim is SFA accountability, one way or another, for without it the game will not move on.
=====
Its more the idea that there is mileage in reporting the corrupt SFA to a governing body and how that governing body would punish said association and the whole can of worms that would open.
What else could UEFA do if it were proved that RFC (RIP) were aided and abetted in gaining access to the CL and thereby cheating not only clubs in Scotland but those in the CL.
As far as I can tell the only sanction they have is a ban from the CL/Europa – that’s fine for clubs but how would they punish the SFA for corruption.
Sweep Sweep
Edit
taxman cometh says:
September 28, 2013 at 7:24 pm
From Article 21 of CFCB Regs – List of disciplinary measures
1 The following disciplinary measures may be imposed against any defendant other than an individual:
a) warning,
b) reprimand,
c) fine,
d) deduction of points,
e) withholding of revenues from a UEFA competition,
f) prohibition on registering new players in UEFA competitions,
g) restriction on the number of players that a club may register for participation in UEFA competitions,
h) disqualification from competitions in progress and/or exclusion from future competitions,
i) withdrawal of a title or award.
Tif Finn says:
September 28, 2013 at 7:35 pm
——————————————-
End of empire nonsense.
Stenhousemuir = Fodder for the “troops”.
“The League One club yesterday notified Police Scotland of “deeply offensive and threatening comments” that have been made on the Follow Follow internet forum for the club’s supporters.
The post allegedly mentioned the possibility of “torching” the director’s car or house…”
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/crime-courts/rangers-call-in-police-as-director-is-targeted-by-online-threats.22271739
===================================================================
Wonder if this was the same source for the ‘credible threat’ – as reported by the Police – to torch the Raith Rovers stadium last year ?
Did McCoist or his club’s directors speak out then ? Don’t think so.
If there is any justice in the world, the Govan club itself will soon be going down in flames – metaphorically of course – and hopefully nothing at all will rise from the ashes.
StevieBC says:
September 28, 2013 at 5:59 pm
The AGM resolution might be deftly ‘dealt with’ without any specific outcome.
However, it’s certainly a worthwhile exercise regardless.
======================
I doubt it will present Celtic with anything Celtic or PL cannot handle or (for Scapa Flow) indeed use.
On the general subject of licensors and licences, I’ve just spent a wee while reading ‘UEFA Communications-Financial Fair Play Objectives and Requirements- History of Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play”.
I have read it before, but I don’t think I had seen this bit. Or it hadn’t registered at the time.
“The fact that more than 100 clubs were refused licences in 2011/12 shows both the continuing need to
improve standards and that the system is actively enforced. The system’s credibility depends on consistent application of the regulations, and an INDEPENDENT AUDITING [my capitals] company annually checks the licensing department of all 53 member associations.
In addition, UEFA, in cooperation with independent auditors, ALSO conducts COMPLIANCE VISITS to check that licences have been correctly granted.
To help the system take root across Europe, UEFA provides the national associations with the technical and financial support required to adequately implement the system. Associations had received a total of EUR 100 million from UEFA’s solidarity fund by the end of the 2011/12 season.”
This is to be found on page 8, near the bottom.
(financialfairplay.co.uk/resources/FFP Press Kit EN_FINAL_en _1_.pdf)
Has the SFA’s licensing department been audited independently, or been visited by UEFA ? or is such an audit or visit scheduled for some time soon?
And what was the SFA’s share of the 100 million?
Tif Finn says:
September 28, 2013 at 7:35 pm
‘I know people think this is acceptable.
I do not.’
—————————–
Neither do I.
I shall be writing to GOC to express my displeasure at having been lied to with false protestations and assurances given last time from his office.
He may be an officer. He’s certainly no gentleman. And I am ashamed and embarrassed for him.
Who would volunteer for service in a sectarian army?
Auldheid says:
September 28, 2013 at 7:45 pm
You have to try, good luck, I hope your reading of the tea leaves turns out to be prescient…
john clarke says:
September 28, 2013 at 8:12 pm
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Tif Finn says:
September 28, 2013 at 7:35 pm
‘I know people think this is acceptable.
I do not.’
—————————–
Neither do I.
I shall be writing to GOC to express my displeasure at having been lied to with false protestations and assurances given last time from his office.
He may be an officer. He’s certainly no gentleman. And I am ashamed and embarrassed for him.
Who would volunteer for service in a sectarian army?
________________________________________________________
Agreed! Cannot believe the top people in the forces allow this to happen There are many in the forces that support other teams, wonder how they must feel when they see this blantant triumphalism going on.
john clarke says:
September 28, 2013 at 8:12 pm
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Tif Finn says:
September 28, 2013 at 7:35 pm
‘I know people think this is acceptable.
I do not.’
—————————–
Neither do I.
I shall be writing to GOC to express my displeasure at having been lied to with false protestations and assurances given last time from his office.
===================================
Worryingly JC a GOC who no longer “commands his troops”.
Should be replaced possibly.
You would worry about what might happen in theatre if they blatantly ignore him on home postings.
Edit
Tif Finn says:
September 28, 2013 at 7:35 pm
I know people think this is acceptable.
I do not
—————————————–
I am willing to accept that some aspects of the current Rangers are the same as the previous version. Today was such an occasion. And I use the word ‘occasion’ in the sense of
“A permanent embarrassment…and an occasional disgrace”