The Immortality Project – or – Death and Denial – Guest Post by Humble Pie
Death has a tendency to put everything else into perspective.
My family recently suffered a bereavement. It wasn’t a sudden death but it was still far too quick and far too soon for any of us to get our heads around. As our loved one’s illness progressed, each of us, in our own way, began to prepare for the inevitable. In the end, whilst it was not unexpected, it was nevertheless very traumatic, for everyone concerned.
Grief is a strange and often debilitating set of emotions. Even now, a few months on, when the intense sadness and tears have given way (mostly) to disbelief, we still find it hard to fully comprehend what has happened. We might never completely ‘come to terms’ with that fact, however, we do accept that it DID happen, much as we all wish that it hadn’t.
Many of you will be familiar with the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Well, I am aware of having experienced each of these stages over the last year, as well as a couple of others which I wasn’t prepared for (a lot of personal reflection, a little guilt and a not insignificant amount of pain).
It seems to me that the Rangers supporters have been purposefully ensnared in an interminable cycle of the first two stages of KR; alternating between the denial of the death of Rangers and anger at what they feel has been done to their beloved club then back again to denial. This, as any first year psychology student will tell you, is a very unhealthy state of mind which, if not addressed, can quickly lead to physiological and behavioural problems.
At its lowest level, for example, people throughout the ages have continued to set places at the dinner table for their long-dead loved ones. They know in their hearts that the person has died but are comforted by the familiarity of doing the same things that they have always done. However, in extreme cases people have even kept and maintained the actual cadavers of the deceased, dressed them, talked to them and watched TV with them, in a state of absolute denial.
In archaeology, accepting and recognising the inevitability of death through conducting ceremonial burial services is considered to be one of the very first signs of a civilised people. You see, grief is a uniquely human and cathartic process i.e. it can produce ‘a feeling of being cleansed emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically as a result of an intense emotional experience’.
In short, grief is ultimately a good thing which leads you through a series of natural psychological steps towards acknowledgement of an unalterable situation, allowing you to take stock, re-evaluate and start to move on with your own life in a positive way.
That is what should have happened with the fans of the old Rangers.
Instead, this ‘never-ending cycle of the undead’ was positively encouraged by those many unscrupulous individuals who saw a way of making a fast buck from maintaining the ‘Then, Now and Forever’ illusion. Worse still, this resurrection fantasy is being facilitated by the very people whom we have entrusted to stop this kind of thing from happening in the first place. If only the SFA or the MSM had told them the truth, they might have had a chance to actually face up to the situation.
Unfortunately, these two bodies were so complicit in Rangers demise, so right up to their necks in the brown smelly stuff, that they were too afraid to face the inevitable anger which would have rightly come their way. So, they made up grim fairy tales to feed to the bereaved souls about non-existent ‘holding companies’, the ethereal ‘club’ which transcends death and by suggesting that it is ‘all a matter of opinion’.
Ernest Becker, in his 1973 Pulitzer Prize winning book ‘The Denial of Death’, posits that “human civilization is no more than an elaborate, symbolic defence mechanism against the knowledge of our own mortality”. This fear of death acts as an emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival instincts.
‘By embarking on what Becker refers to as an ‘immortality project’, in which a person creates or becomes part of something which they feel will last forever, the person feels they too have become part of something eternal; something that will never die, compared to their physical body that will die one day’. When this ‘immortality project’ is threatened it leads inevitably to fear, depression, loss of identity and sense of purpose.
In that case, the initial reaction of the fans to the imminent demise of Rangers was entirely predictable and understandable. “No way, this can’t happen to us, we are the people”. However, as soon as the full realisation of their club’s inexorable slide into liquidation began to sink in, came the expected anger. But towards whom should their righteous wrath be directed?
“Who did this to us, who are these people?” they cried. “Not I”, said Sir Murray of the Mint, “for I was duped”, “Nor I”, said President Ogilvie, “for it was never my role”. “Nor I”, said Mr Smith, “for I never knew nothing or nothing”. “Not us”, squealed the media monkeys in unison, “for that’s what we were told”, “Nor us”, said the SPL “it was nothing to do with us”.
“Who then?, we demand to know who these people are”, howled the horrified hordes. “T’was the Whyte knight”, they all concurred, “he alone caused this calamity”. “And the bampots”, sneered the slimy slug. “And the taxman”, puffed the pundits. “And the unseen hand of Mr Lawwell”, whispered the bilious bears from the safety of their den.
There were even those who tried to warn them, not least Hugh Adam, Phil Mac and RTC but they didn’t want to know. Even when their very own Messrs Green and Traynor spelt out, in no uncertain terms, that liquidation meant the death of their club, still they chose wilful ignorance. The MSM, with access to the same information, encouraged them to keep their heads firmly ensconced, ostrich stylee, on the banks of that ironically blue and white river in Egypt. Which just goes to show ‘you can lead a lamb to knowledge but you can’t make it think’
The point though is that the Rangers fans have heard the truth and once you have heard something you cannot unhear it. Even if you reject it, even if you deny it, it gnaws away at the back of your mind, infecting your subconscious.
Almost a year ago, I posted the following on TSFM. http://theinternetbampot.wordpress.com/2012/09/ in which I postulated that the SFA were too frightened to say anything which might imply that The Rangers were a new club.
Looking back at that post, I am amazed at how little the landscape has changed.
A year on and it has become apparent that the corporate cancer that destroyed Rangers has continued to metastasize in its new host. Charlotte’s revelations may have shown us that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than we first suspected. However, in my humble opinion, the information provided has only succeeded in ‘poisoning the well’ and deflecting attention from the main culprits in this disaster. Layer upon layer of complexity has been added to an already opaque story and the majority of her utterances appear designed to engage the more enquiring minds on this forum and consume their excess mental energy.
I know that some people are bored with this ‘debate’ but, to my mind, the single most important step for the redemption of Scottish football is the fan’s acceptance that The Rangers, who currently ply their trade in the SPFL First Division, are a new club. Once they have accepted that then everything else that they perceive has happened to them will begin to make sense. They will see that rather than everyone having a fly kick at them when they were down, most were actually trying to help them. It will also dawn on them that the very people who have been telling them that there is an anti-Rangers conspiracy against them are actually the same ones who are screwing them over.
Rangers were not relegated to div 3, The Rangers applied as a new club and were granted entry into the bottom tier of Scottish football. They are not banned from European competition, merely ineligible as a new club without the requisite financial ‘history’. Any reference to ‘rulings’ from ECA, ASA, the BBC Trust and any internal or so-called ‘independent’ enquiries are completely irrelevant, as none of these bodies are the final arbiter in this case. Scots Law is clear that there is no distinction between club and company after incorporation, when the company dies the club dies with it. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.
Sooner or later The Rangers fans are going to realise this fact and when they do, there will be hell to pay. Until they do, their new club can never become truly cleansed. Only then can they move on and only then can they join together with fans of other clubs to root out the real cancer at the heart of Scottish football. That’s why the MSM and the SFA are still petrified to say anything. In the meantime the real creators of this disaster are sneakily positioning themselves further and further away from the scene of the crime.
I am sure the majority of us would happily accept a new Rangers, cleansed of its financial, emotional and supremacist baggage. A club that all decent Rangers fans could support without feeling any guilt about Rangers downfall or that they were being taken for mugs. The prospect of a new dawn in Scottish football, where sporting integrity took primacy and clubs lived within their means was very real. However, as usual the SFA couldn’t miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The truth is that Scottish football is in the state it is in, not because Rangers died but because those with the power and mandate to effect the prognosis sat back and did nothing. I am sure that they believe that ‘time heals all wounds’ and that the longer this injustice is allowed to stand the more likely it will be accepted by the man in the street. No doubt the authorities feel it is in the national interest to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’. However I cannot accept this. I believe that it is vital that we are able to face up to reality so we can move on for the benefit of all football supporters.
Scottish football is at a crossroads right now, I think we all feel it. Rampant corruption has become so mainstream that many of our fellow supporters have began to accept this as the norm. However, it just doesn’t sit right with me and I suspect that many regular contributors and readers of this blog feel likewise.
We have quite lost our way and we live in a society which spends vast amounts of money paying people like Jack Irvine to ensure that we stay lost. The mainstream media treat us like little imbeciles and demand that we conform to their assumed ‘professional superiority’. The PR machine plays up to our stereotypes and feeds our fantasies while the poorest people pay to swallow their poisonous propaganda and relentless trivia.
So what can we do ? Clearly, battering out a few blog posts and strongly worded letters to the various authorities involved has been rewarded by the square root of FA.
How can we make this an opportunity for growth rather than contributing to the destruction of Scottish football ? It is not good enough to tear down a system unless we have a better system to replace it. However, I believe that it is not the system itself which is broken. It is that those charged with administering the system are hopelessly corrupted, hugely conflicted and unable to apply their rules without fear or favour.
By their incapacity and inaction (wilful or otherwise) the SFA have facilitated a motley crew of various spivs, chancers and con-artists to glean the last few meagre pickings from the bones of the emaciated loyal supporters of this new club purporting to be the once mighty Rangers. They have permitted these ne’er-do-wells to collectively appropriate many tens of millions of pounds from the Rangers fans, the creditors and the public purse. They have already allowed this corporate malignancy to spread to a new host, ‘The Rangers’, and the absence of ‘moral hazard’ makes it more likely that the disease will continue to spread.
Benjamin Franklin once said, “‘Nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”
Someone else once said, “The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it’s just sort of a tired feeling.”
I sense that we are all beginning to get tired of this. It is time to stand together, all football fans, face the facts and direct our anger against the officers of the SFA who have allowed this sham to develop into a catastrophe.
I have no doubt that my humble opinions expressed here will raise the ire of many deluded souls. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that the only people who get mad at you for speaking the truth are those that are living a lie.
RIP Big Man.
AllyJambo and other contributors on here from Hearts…
A thought occurred to me reading the Directors minutes of TRFC/RIFC – they managed to save 100,000 from the money they owed Hearts.
Does it not grate you more that the 100K Sevco gleefully pocketed had to be replaced by Jambo fans in order to keep the club going to the end of the season – in other words, the “savings” came out eventually from the fans pockets?
Since they were talking in the same meeting about 22 million from IPO, the 100K meant more to Hearts than it did to them surely. And they knew it and took advantage of it. If this is a club aiming to make friends and “retain its rightful place”, then with friends like this who needs enemies….
Unforgivable….
Trying to follow the Sevco story and fit the pieces together. Please tell me where this goes wrong or where there are missing bits…
D&P have a binding agreement to sell to Sevco5088
Sevco 5088 is initially set-up by CG with CW a non-declared partner in the background – possibly only a verbal agreement? Binding in Scot’s law? CW got a recording to confirm this (that would stand up in court)?
CW has to keep in the background to avoid obvious Phoenix?
As sole director, CG can do the novation manoeuvre without telling CW, and D&P might not feel unduly worried?
Sevco Scotland get sold the assets and CW is left out in the cold, having been strung along by CG?
CW can’t raise litigation as the outcome of his plan would have been an illegal phoenix operation?
As I say, looking to be edumacated here.
Zilch says:
September 7, 2013 at 5:47 pm
That seems like a pretty fair summing up to me, based on what we have seen, heard and been told.
I am quite sure that BDO and HMRC are very interested in an organised scheme designed to defraud the creditors of the old Rangers.
It seems that Mr Green has now walked away with his cut, I don’t imagine Mr Whyte is best pleased.
Oh I am slow, the penny has just dropped! Those stinking tapes with the personal attacks (charles green ,see above) is walking away and “somebody” is most likely to have been left with nothing.
“Somebody” left with civil and criminal investigations and most likely unable to live in the UK with any tangible assets.
Charlotte said look to the bigger picture when the release of the tapes were criticised. The main players are running off?
Although we have great posters on here, capable of joining so many dots, this blog surely can’t be the only place where people are capable of coming up with a summary like Zilch’s above.
Are BDO likely to be going through the same thought process, do you think? If they are, would they by now have to have reached the same conclusions, which I feel would have to involve the police if Whyte and Green have done what appears to be the consensus view here. Question to the more learned (and law aware) – is the conclusion that CW is holding off calling CG out because it puts him in the frame for an earlier criminal act as clear cut as Zilch’s summary suggests?
If it is, should BDO be made aware of this (somehow) in case their thought processes are different?
Zilch says:
September 7, 2013 at 5:47 pm
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Great post Zilch…entirely plausible.
However, my recollection is that Sevco 5088 was formed to complete either;
a) In the event of a successful CVA, Sevco 5088 had a binding commitment to (amongst other things) provide a loan of around £8.5M to form a pot for the Creditors
or
b) In the event of the CVA failing, Sevco 5088 had a binding commitment to purchase the assets (Ibrox, Murray Park, Albion Car Park) for £5.5M
But Charles Green has repeatedly said that the assets were purchased by Sevco Scotland…and has maintained that position, strongly, throughout. His assertion being that Sevco 5088 (and Whyte) was only required in the event of a successful CVA.
Now Whisperer has stated at 4.25 today….
at whisperer says:
September 7, 2013 at 4:25 pm
I am sure I mentioned this way back
that The Title Deeds of Ibrox ARE in the name of Sevco 5088
free to inspect at the Land Registry at George Square
If Whisperer is correct… does this mean that Charles Green in not telling the truth/confused?
Sorry, but I’m not in a position to inspect the Land Registry for myself.
It is getting to the stage where I cannot stop laughing, when I look back on the events that have unfolded over the last 18 months and the dilemma of the follow follow brigade. Lets look at the people they have believed in leading them back to the promised land. In the past SDM £10/ £5 scenario, considering that he put nothing in from his own pocket thanks to MIH and HBOS. Then Craig Whyte MBB hero walking down the road to Ibrox, and unfurled the flag on opening game of season, hero. Then he did not pay any NI or tax as he was leading them down another path, although idolised at the time. Then came brass in pocket and brass in neck Mr Green. New hero WATP with a man speaking out against the SFA ( bearing in mind the leader of the SFA was WATP I know nothing Ogilvie) and the ill fitting orange top and “they are bigots against us statements” canny go wrong with that one. Ally supports me ST sold. Champions league music will sound out before I leave, music to the fans ears, they believed and followed and the music man never played . Now Charlie is away who now? Mr Mather (Charlie’s puppet) is he the answer. No way they need real and I mean REAL rangers men like fit and proper Paul Murray and Mr McLelland ( I thought the real ones where the cardigan and Ally). Cardigan back in a job (now gone, sad) that he didnae qualify for and couldnae dae but nae worries ST sold again (thank you good rangers man said Charlie.) Then there is Ally most likely the worst manager they have ever had. In fact whoa hold the bus here comes the Easdales (do not mention behind these walls) real rangers blah blah . In fact we need a bigger board lets get Mr McColl on board the bus as he is a good blah blah man. The same man who put not a penny into the IPO, so that is who the fans follow and I thank the SMSM for their part in helping the follow follow brigade by promoting any one who heads this dead entity. Long may it continue as I personally have never laughed so much for such a long period of time. We know the truth they also know it but have not the courage or morale fibre to print it so laugh I will.
Scottish football will survive and any NEW club is most welcome.
Zilch says:
September 7, 2013 at 5:47 pm
Zilch, everyone knows it’s not ‘edumacated’ it’s ‘edumacised’ 😉
nawlite says:
September 7, 2013 at 6:39 pm
Question to the more learned (and law aware) – is the conclusion that CW is holding off calling CG out because it puts him in the frame for an earlier criminal act as clear cut as Zilch’s summary suggests?
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I think the scenario I am wondering out loud about does not involve an earlier criminal act actually taking place, since the novation to Sevco Scotland eliminates CW from the picture. If CW had not been stiffed by CG, then I am not sure how CW could have got around the phoenix problem. Maybe this is where the idea falls?
I guess I am suggesting that CW cannot go to court because the outcome he wanted from the Sevco plan would stink of Phoenix if put under the scrutiny of a serious legal mind. Chances of success pretty small.
Suggestions on a postcard please!
In Paul McC’s excellent blog – CF is winning the reputation war!
Valentinesclown – understand the laughing but sometimes the reality is not so funny
Take my post above regarding Hearts fans having to replace the 100K “saved” by TRFC – a so called debt free club who had no need (allegedly) to enforce this savings onto a club everyone knew was in distress.
Why did the SFL/SPL/SFA not step in and say – hold on Charles, we cut you a huge break last year by letting your Sevco Scotland team play at Brechin while the registration of RFC was with the Old co and had not been transferred – so we invented this other type of membership meaning 2 Ibrokes teams were registered on the day of the Brechin game. We hushed it all up – we made sure you were able to get your new project off the ground and we did not come down on you when we could have. We have done everything we can to ensure your new club thrives. All we need is for you to ensure our other members (because we are supposed to look after ALL our members) are not disadvantaged in any way. As payback for all our help, we would request you pay Hearts in full and also do not approve or encourage any boycott of the SC tie with Dundee Utd.
But no – the SFA/SPL/SFL all sat like cowards and allowed their members to be treated as 2nd class members by this new upstart.
And to think they sat idly by and let the announcer from Falkirk got hounded out his job for calling them Sevco……… and the program editor from Montrose get lambasted…..and now Jim Spence………when all along the folks who are/were in charge (Walter, CG, Jim Traynor) all admitted it was a new club….until the 5 way agreement. Anyone else think this “then, now and forever” was only allowed to happen after the 5 way – in which case the SFA/SPL/SFL all approved it – or maybe even came up with the idea…….
The way the new club stumbles from one own goal to another is pretty funny – however it does not affect me or my club – so it is funny since they are an irrelevance trying to be relevant.
The complicity of the ruling bodies to lend credence to this pantomine is the part I don’t find funny
nawlite says:
September 7, 2013 at 6:39 pm
It’s an interesting one.
Did Craig Whyte actually commit an offence. He may have talked about it and even tried it however did he actually do it. Did he benefit from the sale of Rangers assets in a way that produced a victim, i.e. the creditors. If not then presumably we would be talking about a fraudulent attempt (in relation to him). Scots law is not a big fan of conspiracies or attempts as far as I am aware. I sure someone can provide some details on whether or not action against him is possible.
Exiledcelt says:
September 7, 2013 at 5:41 pm
EC, I find it very galling, though Hearts had gone to Rangers prior to their administration to make a similar offer, so maybe they have to take some of the responsibility for losing out. I can’t understand, though, why Rapid Vienna accepted it, unless they too are desperate, as it would appear that the SFA were insisting TRFC pay all football creditors, regardless, and RV were clearly in a position to play hardball and would have had the SFA on their side. Looks to me like the SFA stayed silent on that one, and I doubt Green would have told them. Sadly, Hearts can hardly complain about receiving 80% of money due to them, by a liquidated club, as their creditors can only dream of such a payment whether they achieve a CVA or not.
I’m not sure we can claim the money came out of the fans pockets either, as, I think, the £400K kept the club going until the fans money came in. In any event, the SFA let Hearts, and the other clubs involved, down badly (again) by not insisting TRFC paid all football creditors in full. They, the SFA, could/should have taken it out of their hands by taking the money from TRFC and giving it out to all the football creditors, setting a time limit. Once again, the SFA were more interested in keeping TRFC alive than in doing the right thing.
Good article from Paul McConville
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/the-ups-and-downs-of-the-main-players-in-the-rangers-saga-a-handy-guide/#more-4099
Allyjambo – my point was – the 100K would have meant LESS coming out of the fans pockets – how much in total did the fans raise to keep Hearts going? 100K would have made a huge dent in that amount
(edited to add)
And moreover TRFC were bragging about being debt free – they had no need to give a % unlike a club in administration like Hearts currently or RFC last year…
Babylon Beachboy says:
September 7, 2013 at 6:44 pm
But Charles Green has repeatedly said that the assets were purchased by Sevco Scotland…and has maintained that position, strongly, throughout. His assertion being that Sevco 5088 (and Whyte) was only required in the event of a successful CVA.
Now Whisperer has stated at 4.25 today….
at whisperer says:
September 7, 2013 at 4:25 pm
I am sure I mentioned this way back
that The Title Deeds of Ibrox ARE in the name of Sevco 5088
free to inspect at the Land Registry at George Square
If Whisperer is correct… does this mean that Charles Green in not telling the truth/confused?
——————————————————————————————————————————–
Would it be possible for CG, as sole director of Sevco 5088, to arrange for a separation of assets: Ibrox goes to Sevco5088, the rest goes to Sevco Scotland?
This split means he can show CW the title deeds belong to Sevco 5088. Keeps him sweet and he knows that CW can’t do anything with it for fear of the Pheonix.
In the meantime, CG can use Sevco Scotland as the vehicle to establish his own mastery at the Big Hoose.
Is this just a question of timing and brassneck?
Of course, if it is true that the title deeds for Ibrox do indeed belong to Sevco 5088, and CW is listed as a director of Sevco 5088 – does this not cause a few problems e.g. with the IPO? Ooops.
Apologies for the flood of posts. Promise to hold my wheesht after this one.
Is Sevco5088 a subsidiary of Sevco Scotland (runing from memory here – please correct me if this is wrong)?
In that case, perhaps can it be argued that Sevco Scotland have control of the title deeds?
However it does leave the rather tricky issue of CW’s continued involvement with a subsidiary that appears to own the stadium… BTW, is it possible for a punter off the street to take a photocopy of a title deed? Reckon there’s a few folk want to know…
Failed attempts to close Sevco5088 might be CG trying to destroy the evidence of CW’s continued involvement and get the title deeds transferred to Sevco Scotland? I imagine CW would try to resist that pretty hard as this is possibly his last ticket for the gravy train…
OK. Enough thinking out loud for me. One of the great things about this blog is the massive range of knowledge and experience of so many of the posters. I am not one of them. I have no business experience whatsoever. Very happy to be put right on any aspect of this.
Of course, it would also be nice to see a MSM journalist do a little digging… sounds like there is some low-hanging fruit waiting to be plucked. If the title deeds are really available in George Sq, then in the name of all that is holy – why not answer DerBomber’s question?
Exiledcelt says:
September 7, 2013 at 7:00 pm
I agree with all you said. Some things are not so funny and our game is no laughing matter. That said the totally ignoring of the truth concerning a dead club in our country either depresses you or in my case makes me laugh because hopefully the truth will eventually prevail. I laugh at only those who keep the dead club myth going (deid is deid no matter what they say) as they who promote this are a joke. I love my football and will support my club and have the greatest respect to all clubs who live within their means without the success that my club achieves. These are the real fans and they like me deserve sporting integrity and not one team being favoured ahead of any club (as this is what is happening lets not be fooled). I laugh at those who will not let the old club go only because they will certainly laugh at all of us if they come back as the same club who failed to pay their creditors. Believe me the SMSM will have the biggest smile on their face if this club returns to the top of Scottish football. .
I see some Stranraer fans are trying to garner more support for their team on twitter. It was a crying shame that their superb League Cup win over Ross County was watched by only 215 fans, 8 of whom were County fans and no doubt a few players friends and relatives made up some of the remaining 207. Given many folk believe Stranraer were the ONE club who did the right thing last summer, a follow on twitter isn’t too much to ask.
SupportOurStranraer@SOStranraer
Exiledcelt says:
September 7, 2013 at 7:21 pm
I appreciate what you say EC, but the fans would have contributed the same amount anyway, and at best, Hearts would have £100,000 more, and I wish they did. Green used a legitimate business tactic (nasty though) and took advantage of the situation Hearts were in, and Hearts live on. Had it been a case that Rangers were a club in difficulty (silly notion, I know) and had gone to Hearts, themselves in even more difficulty, and negotiated an up front discounted payment, then the SFA would not have been involved and so played no part in it. The fact that, to facilitate TRFC staying in Scottish football, the SFA had exacted a forfeit on them in the shape of paying all football creditors, but left it open ended and gave Green the green light to ‘negotiate’, is probably more galling. A spiv like Green will always look after himself, and his money machine, but the SFA should look after ALL clubs under their governance, ensuring, in this case Hearts, got all their money, and, if they impose a forfeit on any club under their governance, ensure it is met in full. You and I, and all on here, were not in the least surprised that Green pulled a flanker. The SFA should have expected this too, and taken steps to ensure his plans were scuppered before they were hatched. Indeed by including the words ‘in full’ and adding a date to be paid by, Hearts would have been £100K better off. If the SFA were so sure that TRFC were financially sound, they could even have paid Hearts themselves, using one of their many get out clauses in the rules, and been confident of getting it back. Still, I doubt they were really all that confident.
You are undoubtedly right, it is galling for Hearts supporters, but it is galling for every supporter of every club, that TRFC have got away with this, and so much more, with the connivance, or incompetence, of the SFA.
PS I do agree with your post, but would hate to come across as some greetin’ Jambo, blaming TRFC, or anyone else, for the dire situation my club is in
Zilch says:
September 7, 2013 at 7:43 pm
‘then in the name of all that is holy – why not answer DerBomber’s question?’
_____________________________________
Eh, could it be because they don’t want to know the answer? 😕
I’m pretty sure that the deeds of Ibrox etc are registered to Sevco Scotland- at least that’s my recollection of the posts on the subject a few months back. It’s on the public record, has anyone got up to date information on what the Land Registry shows? This is the best link I could find- apologies for the embedded video.
http://news.stv.tv/west-central/108240-rangers-crisis-ibrox-and-murray-park-hived-off-to-separate-newco/
The undernoted was posted on Follow Follow on 17 August 2013 by the guy Dingwall who runs the site. Before people say well he would say that then all I can say is it is the latest info I have seen and matches similar posts elsewhere including Celtic sites so I personally don’t believe the poster on here who states property is in the name of Sevco 5088 Ltd.
I’m not saying it was a malicious action as he may have been told it in good faith but this has been checked by a lot of people since last year and the basic info has never changed on the stadium and Auchenhowie.
Undernoted
Ibrox Stadium is registered under Land Register Title Number GLA210958, Edmiston House under Title Number GLA62016 and GLA29534 and Auchenhowie under DMB65871.
They were all bought by Sevco Scotland Limited but that company has changed it’s name to The Rangers Football Club Limited. They’re all still registered to The Rangers Football Club Limited.
Babylon Beachboy says:
September 7, 2013 at 6:44 pm
7 0 Rate This
If Whisperer is correct… does this mean that Charles Green in not telling the truth/confused?
Sorry, but I’m not in a position to inspect the Land Registry for myself.
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You can search the Land Register using “Registers Direct” for £3. The trouble is you generally have to have an account with Registers of Scotland via work (most law firms have accounts but other organisations such as banks do too). However, anyone who searches for ownership of Ibrox using a work account at a law firm these days might find themselves in the front line in the next redundancy round.
If you aren’t employed by an organisation which has a Regs Direct account you can instruct the Registers of Scotland to conduct a search for you (it costs around £14) via the link below,or you can instruct a private firm of searchers such as Millar & Bryce or “landownership scotland” (link below) to do it for you. The cost of finding out who is currently registered as the owner of Ibrox stadium/Auchenhowie would probably be £40 or so.
It is of course possible for Ibrox/Auchenhowie to have been transferred/sold to someone other than the party who currently appears as registered owner. In normal conveyancing practice the purchaser would want to register their title as quickly as possible to ensure that their title was “made real” and safe from challenge by any third party who might also have purchased/acquired the property (i.e. in cases of fraud where the seller sells to two different parties, or in cases where the seller is made insolvent and the insolvency practitioner is in a position to register title to the same property). In rare cases the purchaser might not want their purchase to be made public by registration and so would be content to simply hold a “personal right” (i.e. unregistered title) to the property. They would have to be confident that there was very little risk of a “competing title” being registered to sit for a long period of time on an unregistered title though.
http://www.ros.gov.uk/professional/eservices/property_search/searchform.html
http://www.landownership-scotland.co.uk/
Kept digging and got this also from FF undernoted – google is a wonderful tool 😡
UNDERNOTE
Here are the important parts:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2emiq2h.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/r2t9xi.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2d12yoj.jpg
One caveat is that the title sheet is only up to date to the 15th of October 2012. That said, any pending registrations ought to be flagged up as part of the search, and there weren’t any.
Allyjambo says:
September 7, 2013 at 8:02 pm
Thanks for the reply – its true if we raise this its “whataboutery” quickly etc. Was partly wondering whether or not there were some people within SFA/SPL/SFL that wanted a few clubs to go into difficulty so they could say told you lot it would happen – would not put it past that bunch of toe rags!
We are all Jim Spence! Scotland needs a strong BBC!
ecobhoy says:
September 7, 2013 at 8:24 pm
——————————————–
The Disposition of the various heritable properties which were owned by RFC was by D&P as Admins thereof to Sevco Scotland Limited. Signed on the same say the CVA was rejected. And registered at the Land Registry the next day.
I will put my mortgage/floating charge (if I had one) on that as being a 100% correct FACT
🙂
theoldshed says:
September 7, 2013 at 8:21 pm
It is of course possible for Ibrox/Auchenhowie to have been transferred/sold to someone other than the party who currently appears as registered owner. In normal conveyancing practice the purchaser would want to register their title as quickly as possible to ensure that their title was “made real” and safe from challenge by any third party
============================================================
It is possible as you say that someone might delay registering their interest in the property but in this case I doubt if Green’s backers would take the risk especially with CW on the loose.
If the info I have posted is correct then the title was in the name of TRFCL definitely up until 15/10/2012 and this was further confirmed in the Rangers AIM Prospectus for the December 2012 flotation and in the same month a voluntary striking off application for Sevco 5088 Ltd was presented to Companies House.
So there is no possibility IMO that the ownership of the stadium and training ground was then transferred to Sevco 5088 Ltd especially as CW and his sidekick were claiming to be directors. I accept it may well have been transferred elsewhere but I think it highly unlikely this could be hidden with such a leaky factionalised Board.
neepheid says:
September 7, 2013 at 8:09 pm
I’m pretty sure that the deeds of Ibrox etc are registered to Sevco Scotland- at least that’s my recollection of the posts on the subject a few months back. It’s on the public record, has anyone got up to date information on what the Land Registry shows? This is the best link I could find- apologies for the embedded video.
http://news.stv.tv/west-central/108240-rangers-crisis-ibrox-and-murray-park-hived-off-to-separate-newco/
==============================================
STV’s reporting was on the ball and got it all right re the relationship between Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland which wasn’t bad going considering they published it in June 2012.
The Glen says:
September 7, 2013 at 8:43 pm
So why in the STV piece does a Rangers spokesman say they were bought by 5088 then transferred to Scotland, then?
http://www.stornowaygazette.co.uk/sport/smudger-speaks-in-stornoway-1-3080274
. . .“He was saying the big tax case was hanging over us and we couldn’t do certain things until it was resolved and each time I asked him if we were going to go into administration and he would just say ‘it depends on the big tax case.’
“In reality we were in administration before the big tax case was ever decided. It was his management of it which was wrong but he was spending money. He did put money out for transfers and he increased wages by quite a bit but the main thing of that was to get players on contract, for value, to sell on.
“That was the short termism and I wasn’t involved in that as I was looking at medium to long term.”
With the club struggling in administration and teetering on the brink they were seemingly hauled back from the abyss by Charles Green who bought Whyte’s shares. . .
Smudger obviously has a memory block
. . . after administration, everything worked out fine. . .no liquidation ????!!!
nawlite says:
September 7, 2013 at 10:01 pm
—————————
I honestly have no idea.
But it would be fair to say that Mr. Green said things that weren’t actually true at various points over the course of his time in Glasgow.
I was only passing on the correct details of the information sent to and now held by the land registry.
The Proprietorship Section shows the “Consideration” as “Implementation of Agreement” – I don’t know if this means the sale and purchase agreement to which Sevco 5088 were a party or not – but there was no mention of Sevco 5088 in the deed which transferred the properties.
Have I totally lost it or has Charlotte disappeared from Twitter?
Zilch says:
September 7, 2013 at 6:50 pm
I can certainly see how it would potentially be problematic for Mr Whyte to lead a civil case against Mr Green which was based around them both trying to rip-off the creditors of the business Mr Whyte had previously owned and operated. Any case he had would open himself up to questions he probably wouldn’t want to answer.
Hence the dirty tricks campaign from both one would have thought.
Had it been done a bit better and the whole vulture capitalist -v- vulture capitalist thing not happened then phase three would probably have already happened and “real Rangers men” would own the club by now.
Though if that included the likes of the Easdale brothers then hell slap it into them. If anyone thinks that it is a step in the right direction having their club owned by people like that then they are very much mistaken.
There have been a number of posts today, postulating that Craig Whyte may be reluctant to press his claims re Sevco5088 in the courts because to do so he would have to admit to criminal behaviour.
Perhaps I am missing something blindingly obvious here; but what would have been illegal in his claimed ownership of or involvement with Sevco5088?
I understand the issues with the SFA and “fit & proper” status; but that is a sporting matter. It would not make his involvement, with what could have been the new club, a criminal act.
In general terms there is nothing illegal (however immoral we believe it to be) for a former director to buy up the assets of a failed or failing company. As long as a fair price was paid for the assets!
Although using “Rangers” in the new company’s name would have been prohibited for Mr Whyte, he would have had the opportunity to apply to the courts for permission before Sevco5088’s name was changed. Remember the asset purchase went through on 14th June 2012; but Sevco Scotland did not change its company name until 31st July 2012.
As I said, perhaps I am missing something blindingly obvious; but I just don’t see any criminality in his involvement with Sevco5088.
Was good to hear Turnbull Hutton on Sportsound this afternoon. Is there really no way he can be persuaded to take part in the upper echelons of Scottish Football administration? Can always be relied upon to call it as it is.
Carucal says:
September 7, 2013 at 10:17 pm
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Have I totally lost it or has Charlotte disappeared from Twitter?
————–
Gone, but not forgotten.
HirsutePursuit says:
September 7, 2013 at 10:58 pm
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There have been a number of posts today, postulating that Craig Whyte may be reluctant to press his claims re Sevco5088 in the courts because to do so he would have to admit to criminal behaviour.
Perhaps I am missing something blindingly obvious here; but what would have been illegal in his claimed ownership of or involvement with Sevco5088?
I understand the issues with the SFA and “fit & proper” status; but that is a sporting matter. It would not make his involvement, with what could have been the new club, a criminal act.
In general terms there is nothing illegal (however immoral we believe it to be) for a former director to buy up the assets of a failed or failing company. As long as a fair price was paid for the assets!
Although using “Rangers” in the new company’s name would have been prohibited for Mr Whyte, he would have had the opportunity to apply to the courts for permission before Sevco5088′s name was changed. Remember the asset purchase went through on 14th June 2012; but Sevco Scotland did not change its company name until 31st July 2012.
As I said, perhaps I am missing something blindingly obvious; but I just don’t see any criminality in his involvement with Sevco5088.
=========================
I set that hare running although I think I posed it more as a question than a fact.
So buying back your own company hiding behind an intermediary is ok in law?
That means it had to be football law CW was trying to circumvent by using CG as an intermediary. There should be consequences to that were it not for the fact it was the SFA who were “duped” (They ignore duping)
However if CW has no criminal consequences to fear what is holding up his claim to ownership of The Rangers?
Danish Pastry says:
September 8, 2013 at 12:10 am
Carucal says:
September 7, 2013 at 10:17 pm
Have I totally lost it or has Charlotte disappeared from Twitter?
————–
Gone, but not forgotten.
——–
She (and I do so hope that she is a she) will be back!
She has done us all a signal service in exposing the relationships that existed between the SFA, RFC(now in liquidation), and the SMSM and Radio Scotland, and still exist between those organisations and RIFC.
As said before, the omnishambles of a pig’s ear of a business farce that is currently playing out (at a football stadium on Edmiston Drive) in which the occasional convicted fraudster and sundry other tarnished, and very tarnished, ‘business’ men lie to and cheat each other in their greedy quest to maximise their personal take of the easy money obtained from suckers, is really only of secondary interest.
Let them destroy themselves, and be applauded by their 500 000 000 as they do so.
OUR primary focus is on the fact that our entire football administration was party to a whole lot of unacceptable shenanigans, and was aided and abetted in that collusion by very contemptible fellows masquerading as ‘sports journalists’.
(And, to avoid charges of sexism, I have to add that the female sports writers/broadcasters are part of the pack.
Moira, I am so disappointed!)
Auldheid says:
September 8, 2013 at 12:30 am
====================================
As I understand it, Craig Whyte claims that Charles Green was no more than a nominee shareholder in Sevco5088 and that he (Craig Whyte) & Aidan Earley were the beneficial owners of that shareholding.
It is up to the administrators or liquidators of a failed company to get the maximum return for the shareholders. If, in a sale of the business & assets the majority shareholder/CEO wishes to make a bid, there is no legal impediment other than Section 216 of the Insolvency Act.
This, in short, says that anyone who was a director in the 12 months prior to a company’s liquidation cannot be involved in the formation or running of a company of the same (or similar name) for a period of 5 years.
There are 3 exception:
1.If the whole or most of the business is sold together, the purchaser can notify all of the known creditors within 28 days of the sale.
2. The purchaser can get permission from the court
3. If the purchaser is a director of (solvent) company that has been trading for 12 months or more prior to the liquidation of the insolvent company and has the same (or a very) similar name.
One way that Mr Whyte could have possibly (legally) circumvented section 216 is by a further transfer of assets into Rangers FC Group (formally Wavetower). As this company had been trading with the Rangers name for more than 12 months prior to Administration (as per exception 3), he probably could have used it as the football club using the Rangers branding. I’m not saying that is definitely what would have happened; but it is something he may have considered as a possibility.
If he wanted to run Sevco 5088 as the football club and change it to a name that included “Rangers”, he would have had to seek permission from the court – as per exception 2. Unlikely to be granted I would have thought; but he can say that it was his intention to make the application.
Alternatively, he could have sold the business on for a profit or broken it up.
He couldn’t have notified creditors (as per exception1) because he claims to have been seeking to hide his involvement from the SFA.
Whatever his future intentions were, I don’t see how he would have breached section 216 at the time of the asset sale as the name of the company (Sevco 5088) was not prohibited. Also, as the company was not a member of the SFA, SPL or SFL, the “Rangers” trading name/brand would not have been in use.
As to why no legal action now…
[How about some late night musings before I turn in?]
Corporate litigation is an expensive route to go and perhaps there are factors we are unaware of that weaken Craig Whyte’s case. But, if we assume that he is supremely confident that he has a case to win, there still may be significant benefits in keeping his powder dry.
Why were Rangers FC sold to Craig Whyte for £1? Because they had no cash, were loss making and had a huge potential liability that meant any potential investment could be lost into an enormous black hole.
So what happens when RIFC run out of money later this year and they are looking to get new investors? What if CW launches legal action at that moment?
What if RIFC/TRFC face exactly the same financial crisis as Rangers did in 2010/11?
RIFC have no funds to fight him, so he doesn’t have to spend much to set his legal action running. With a possibility that the assets sale to Sevco Scotland is made void RIFC can’t get any new investment and the new club will teeter on the brink of insolvency.
If Craig Whyte is the only person that can make the potential liability disappear, he would be in a unique position to take a substantial shareholding at a knock down price & lead a new team of investors into RIFC to see the new club into the top league.
This would make sense as Rangers (as a brand) are worth more if the team is 18 months away from the top tier (and potentially European entry) than they would be if they were 3 years away from reaching those goals.
Craig Whyte won’t want the assets handed to Sevco 5088, he will want a significant part of Sevco Scotland/RIFC.
I would be surprised if he doesn’t have part of the new club already. Maybe what he has is just not enough.
But then again, maybe it is… 😆
Talking of Scottish football generally…and following on from BRTH’s recent post about ‘Aberdeen’s Opportunity’, there was a good article from Tam Cowan on Saturday.
He applauded Aberdeen’s midweek friendly match with Viking Stavanger for being free.
And 10K turned up to watch.
Well done Aberdeen.
A refreshing development in Scottish football to attract new punters to the stadium?
Will it catch on… ?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tam-cowan-hail-free-musketeers-2256634
Bomber’s ‘show us ra deeds!!!’ Is beginning to make him look like John the Baptist, a voice crying in the wilderness. The stories diverge at the point where the Saviour is revealed, except there is none. Not CG, who parcelled up the parts of the corpse and flogged them for a song to a variety of city sorts who know a good thing when they see it. Why is buying supurating parts a good thing? Because there’s always another mug down the lie willing to part with cash for the opputunity to save their club. Even better when you acquire the bits for 1p, or less, and flog them for 1p+.
On one side there are sentimental investors who believe in ‘Rangerness’, on the other, people who are flogging the scenery, in the middle are the helpless ‘Real rangers Men’. All watched over by the MSM who are spoon fed exclusives by the PR team.
On the outside looking in are the supporters, informed by a director of communications who appears to spend most of his time out of the loop and ‘leaders’ who have been promised seats on board and influential roles whilst lashing out at anyone who dare speak the truth, like Jim Spence.
UptheHoops
I think you have just done a Steven Thompson and knee jerked,he has admitted going off on one and releasing the toys out of the pram was the wrong thing to do,what he is now saying that he was asked if he wanted to report the Celtic issues but he replied no that it the failure in the present system and he does not whant to be a part of a flawed system where ,as an example the Hearts manager could have reported the alleged incidents to Loony and he would then look at it and deliver the bans that the Hearts manager would be looking for the Celtic players to receive for the next game against his team,the incident involving his player was reported after an official watched it on tv which is wrong ,if this official had seen the whole game would he then have reported the alleged other incidents ,as we all know Loony has selective vital organs which operate different from the ordinary individual along with the lead lined office he works out of,his job needs others to point out misdemeanors in our game so that he can deal with them impartionatly,thats why so many slipped under the radar last season ,no one of any real intergrity reported any worthwhile incidents last season,did they,
Morning all.
Hi all.
I made a post yesterday at 4:12 pm, but it was held in moderation for a very long time (probably because it was my very first post on TSFM – this is the second!). When it finally appeared early this morning, it was nowhere near the end of the list, so I suspect most people missed it.
It was about the ‘missing novation deed’.
Please could I ask you to take a look and say what you think.
On the other hand, if you’ve already seen it and decided to ignore it, fair enough … 🙂
HirsutePursuit says:
September 7, 2013 at 10:58 pm
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In general terms there is nothing illegal (however immoral we believe it to be) for a former director to buy up the assets of a failed or failing company. As long as a fair price was paid for the assets!
==================================
As I understand it the offer was £5.5m, however the assets being purchased were to include any outstanding prize money and any outstanding player registration fees. So all debts were to be lost but any outstanding income was to be included.
In reality the offer was around £3.5m net. To buy all of Rangers assets, including but not limited to Ibrox Stadium, Murray Park and all of the players’ registrations.
You are quite right in adding the exclamation mark!
The potential criminality from the point of view of Craig Whyte includes both the contrived insolvency, which happened and the alleged attempt at buying the assets of the business at a seriously reduced price, to the detriment of the creditors, with the agreement of the administrators he put in place.
Just to be accurate, he wasn’t just a previous director, he was also in effect the previous owner. In fact he owned the business when they stole over £10m from HMRC (you and me) by collecting VAT, PAYE and NI and then spending it rather than remitting it. One could easily argue a case for the fraudulent evasion of VAT, though to a certain extent that would depend on what was on the previous registrations VAT returns.
[edited]
HirsutePursuit says:
September 8, 2013 at 2:49 am
If Craig Whyte is the only person that can make the potential liability disappear, he would be in a unique position to take a substantial shareholding at a knock down price & lead a new team of investors into RIFC to see the new club into the top league.
===============================================================
Like it ❗ It has a ring of the ‘Restoration of the Fallen Messiah’ to it. Gawd help the Bears though they will need to hire a gimbal on entering Ibrox to prevent their head spinning. Nope nothing to do with Jim’s Balls which will be well shrivelled by the time Wee Craigie is manning the cash-only turnstiles.
Definition of gimbal courtesy of Wiki: ‘On a ship, the gyroscopes, shipboard compasses, stoves, and even drink holders typically use gimbals to keep them upright with respect to the horizon despite the ship’s pitching and rolling.’
I really am beginning to wonder whether SS Dignity will ever reach that far horizon with its calm waters of financial stability ❓
Btw: The gimbal suspension used for mounting compasses is sometimes called a Card(ig)an suspension named after a Rangers legend famous for his Dignity and fence-sitting which most certainly can lead to shrivelled balls and a loss of direction 😆
BigGav says:
September 7, 2013 at 4:12 pm
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Hi all.
Long time lurker both here and previously on RTC, but this is my first post.
Re Charlotte’s latest revelations, I’m not sure that the reported ‘missing novation deed’ relates to Sevco’s purchase of RFC(IL)’s assets.
Let’s look at what the minutes (of the October 31st RFCL board meeting) actually say.
(5.2) … The Company entered into the APA and acquired Rangers (with Sevco 5088 and the Administrators of RFC 2012 plc being parties to the APA in addition to the Company to provide written consent to the change of acquiring entity).
(8.1) … At the 7th June Board Meeting, the Company documented that it had approved the novation of the loan facility of £200,000 from Imran Ahmad … The 7th June Board Meeting did not append the deed of novation to transfer the obligations from Sevco 5088 Limited to the Company in relation to the loan facility. The Company acknowledged this deed could not currently be located …
My reading (although it’s not entirely clear) is that the ‘missing’ deed actually relates only to the transfer of Ahmad’s loan from Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland, and not to the novation of the asset purchase. As others have pointed out (and as suggested by 5.2 above), a copy of this latter one (the one that really matters) would also have to be in the posession of D&P.
What do you all think?
———————————————————————————————————————————————-Good spot Gav . Sevco seem to have problems with “Deeds”.
New Ibrox Banner ?
http://www.lovebeingbritish.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/a/pankhurst_deeds_not_words_white_uj1.jpg
davythelotion says:
September 8, 2013 at 9:08 am
15 0 Rate This
———-
Regarding John Brown, he did say he was told to shut it by anonymous individuals in a car. Made-up story? Brown doesn’t seem the fantasist type. Funny Ally didn’t comment on that incident with a ‘Who are these people?’
Auldheid says:
September 8, 2013 at 12:30 am
However if CW has no criminal consequences to fear what is holding up his claim to ownership of The Rangers?
=================================================================
Various factors come into play whereby CW would much prefer to have an untraceable payment paid into an anonymous offshore account rather than be awarded damages by a court with a long list of creditors waiting on the steps to grab every penny of it.
I have no doubt that negotiations as to the size of the buy-off have been taking place after CW has been carefully examined by a proctologist to ensure no tape ‘worms’ are secreted on his person. However as HP said in his recent post this could be all about timing to maximise the pay-off. I think as part of the process that CF has folded her tent and slipped into the night. However, like McArthur, she will return if negotiations break-down and that is when the nuclear button is pressed.
We must keep at the forefront of our thinking that Green is nothing but a mouthpiece and a deflection from the real money-men. He was paid exceedingly well because there was always the chance that he would be the public sacrificial offering with no future usefulness in the AIM wheeler-dealer casino.
The Sevco 5088 parting gift from CF really paints only Green as the comic book villain- the real rankbadyin and our Craigie is cast more as a flawed Lobby Dosser locked in battle with the Govan Pawnees with the brass necks and bigger brass balls.
But CF was always a teaser and I have a little feeling that among all the names of shareholdings that there is a little dagger aimed at the men in the background who have pulled the strings from Day 1 and who will earn the most from the flensing of the beached whale at Ibrox.
I could be talking utter nonsense but I don’t think so – this has been a well rehearsed operation from Day 1 which has been flexible enough to deal with being blown well of course on occasion – I still fear that the only real intention of the spivs was the financial rape and pillage of Ibrox and if CW is on the verge of being ‘sorted’ then we are getting close to the end of this chapter IMO.
Points to remember
1 Rangers International claim that Sevco 5088 is a wholly owned subsidiary
2 Companies House has documentation that shows Whyte and Earley are registered as Directors
3 Someone , probably RIFC plc, has attempted to voluntarily strike off the company
4 Companies House has suspended that action , as it received an objection, probably from Whyte
5 There was a resolution in June 2012 to issue new shares. This was signed by Green, and if Charlotte is correct the owner of these new shares were 2 BVI trusts owned by Whyte
Therefore we have Rangers claiming to wholly own a subsidiary, in conflict with information at Companies House. The ownership appears to be with an individual banned by the SFA.
Not unsurprisingly annual returns have not been lodged for Sevco 5088, and equally unsurprisingly the SFA do not appear interested in investigating the links beetwen a banned individual and a member club, through Sevco 5088.
This isn’t going away and only settlement or court action will produce an outcome
I remember someone here was in contact with Manchester United regarding their charity match with TRFCL. I wonder if they are aware of the board meeting minutes where it was stated that the proceeds would go towards running costs?
HirsutePursuit says:
September 7, 2013 at 10:58 pm
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There have been a number of posts today, postulating that Craig Whyte may be reluctant to press his claims re Sevco5088 in the courts because to do so he would have to admit to criminal behaviour.
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Quite correct, this happens all the time in prepack administrations. My angle here is that Sevco 5088 had a shareholder base. Charlotte’s board minutes revelations actually mention Sevco Scotland mirorring 5088. As the binding agreement was with 5088 there had to be a novation agreement between Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland. Whyte (assuming) even as a minority shareholder in 5088 still had rights and could certainly have burned some clock time by exhausting his rights. Chico did not have the time and anyway it was a good idea to get Whyte off the case so a document was given to the Duffers. This is the nub of all the problems because Whyte was shafted and has since been running a campaign, my thought is through CF, to release just enough information to show Imran and Chico that he means business. Whyte has some goods on this pair although he wants a share of their cash to go away. He will never get to court..he is posturing trying to create a position…..just like CF who could have produced the “nuclear document” if she wanted to.
She did not as it was in her best interest to achieve a negotiated settlement and exit with some cash. My first ever comment on RTC quoted “Follow the cash and it will all make sense”. I look forward to a confidential settlement between Whyte, Green and Imran and the final dissolution of Sevco 5088. As for Rangers they are still in big trouble and we can look forward to more troubles ahead with their totally unworkable board. It should be interesting!
BigGav says:
September 8, 2013 at 9:51 am
It was about the ‘missing novation deed’. Please could I ask you to take a look and say what you think.
On the other hand, if you’ve already seen it and decided to ignore it, fair enough … 🙂
==========================================================================
I have quickly re-read the minutes and would agree it seems that the missing document does appear to be to do with the loan by CW to Imran’s mum and then by Ahmad to Sevco 5088 and thence to D&P to secure exclusivity for Sevco 5088 in its offer to buy the assets of RFC 2012 Plc from D&P on 12 May 21012.
Always remember it was the exclusivity which torpedoed other bidders including the Blue Knights.
But in a curious way I think this is more damning than what some thought earlier and I remind you of the utter shambles and confusion surrounding the loan when CF revealed the details not so long ago – more than a year after the event. It’s a guess but I think the missing document contains serious probs for the spivs and I am sure CW has the original or a copy 😯
However having re-read the minutes I have spotted a few important things which I didn’t before and will need to go and check other documentation.
But as someone else said good spot ❗
EDIT ADDED
Having seen the post from 100BJD I should have added of course that I’m not ruling out a separate novation deed vis a vis Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland over the transfer of Rangers’ assets and business.
BigGav says:
September 8, 2013 at 9:51 am
Quantcast
Morning all.
Hi all.
I made a post yesterday at 4:12 pm, but it was held in moderation for a very long time (probably because it was my very first post on TSFM – this is the second!). When it finally appeared early this morning, it was nowhere near the end of the list, so I suspect most people missed it
————————————————————————————————————————————-
Gav you are correct that the actual novation document mentioned in the detailed minutes were relevant to Imrans “WONGA WONGA loan, although this was done in my opinion to rubberstamp and officialise Imrans deal. I found it strange that this document, which suited the spivs, got a detailed mention although the much more important Sevco 5088-Sevco Scotland did not. Hence the missing document. I would also have thought that such a vital document would have been in the IPO prospectus which is why Craigs ” we are sevco” tapes appeared after the IPO had been launched as Chico and Imran are on even riskier and richer ground which provides a better platform for him to negotiate his position.
An instalment of The Sevco Sagas can be heard 42min into the Sportsound Extra podcast. Keith Jackson, Stuart Cosgrove, and Graham Spiers all chipping in. Quite interesting. No doubt another protest letter being penned at this very moment as a result of some of the comments made.
Do Stenhousemuir own Ibrox???
Only 1 Jim Spence @SirBarold Protected account 2m
Why does pic on right hand of screen say Stenhousemuir play there when you do an Ibrox google search?
Only 1 Jim Spence @SirBarold Protected account 2m
Similar happens if you do a google search of Stenhousemuir – says they play at Ibrox. Go on- try it!
Use Internet Explorer
Danish Pastry says:
September 8, 2013 at 11:24 am
Is there anything in particular that will have the hoards gnashing their teeth?
Found on my twitter feed this morning.
PoliticalCeltictweet @edwardrice1 34m
Rangers – Falling Masonry, a must read for all Scottish football fans
http://www.thecelticwiki.com/page/Rangers+-+Falling+Masonry
Interesting historical look at the way things ‘work’ at Ibrox.
Nothing changed then, nothing has changed now, I’m guessing they will never change.
@ 100BJD
You can see Sevco 5088 ‘shareholding’ structure consisted of the original placing investors in Sevco 5088 detailed at 5.6 who all got placing letters in the name of Sevco 5088 Ltd. Subsequently replaced by placing letters in Sevco Scotland Ltd and then TRFCL and with the addition of additional placing investors along the way who all got TRFCL share certificates.
But the paras from 5.1 to 5.6 are all important
ecobhoy says:
September 8, 2013 at 11:21 am
Always remember it was the exclusivity which torpedoed other bidders including the Blue Knights.
Having seen the post from 100BJD I should have added of course that I’m not ruling out a separate novation deed vis a vis Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland over the transfer of Rangers’ assets and business.
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Some really interesting posts this morning. Thinking caps are definitely on. Couple of points from Ecobhoy’s post above.
Despite following this story as closely as I can, I have never understood how it was possible for an above-board administration to sign an exclusive agreement with Sevco5088.
It has been said that the only time CW panicked was when he thought HMRC were going to get their own administration team in. Clearly CW had a deal ready with D&P. I just don’t understand how this is not some sort of conspiracy that ought to be illegal as it effectively stiffs the original creditors.
Title deeds, novation documents etc. Seems to me that one defining characteristic of the Spiv is the ability to create a web of false avenues that is intended to shake off all but the most determined pursuit.
When we are looking at this stuff I think there has to be a careful eye on the date and time when documents were signed, posted etc. For example, is it possible that a title deed was transferred through a succession of Sevco5088 and then Sevco Scotland, with CG able to force through the second transfer? It seems pretty close to certain that the title deed now rests with Sevco Scotland (now RIFC?) – but the route it took to get there? I still think it would be interesting for someone to get sight of the document in George Sq.
Barcabhoy is bang on the money. None of the main players want any of this taken into a Court of Law. Is there such a crime as conspiracy to defraud?
As ever – looking to be “edumacised” – sounds much more painful Jean!
@100BJD
The big revelation for me in the board minutes is the existence of the APA to which BOTH 5088 and Scotland are parties. Previously I, and I think most others, had assumed there was a bilateral SPA and the conjecture was whether it was with 5088 OR Scotland.
If the APA was trilateral, would it not obviate the need for a separate novation?
JLeeHooker says:
September 8, 2013 at 11:33 am
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Is there anything in particular that will have the hoards gnashing their teeth?
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If I was being facetious I would ask, ‘Is there anything they can’t find a reason to gnash their teeth about?’ But I’m not, so I won’t. I thought Keith Jackson was rather forthright. No mention of Jim Spence, and the words ‘new’ and ‘club’ were not used in the same sentence. A bit of Traynor-mocking, now that could be serious.
100BJD says:
September 8, 2013 at 11:23 am
I found it strange that this document, which suited the spivs, got a detailed mention although the much more important Sevco 5088-Sevco Scotland did not. Hence the missing document. I would also have thought that such a vital document would have been in the IPO prospectus which is why Craigs ” we are sevco” tapes appeared after the IPO had been launched as Chico and Imran are on even riskier and richer ground which provides a better platform for him to negotiate his position.
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Not only is the Sevco 5088 novation document not mentioned in the Rangers AIM Prospectus but the prospectus ignores the Sevco 5088 role and states:
‘12.1.1 Asset Purchase Agreement
On 14 June 2012 RFCL entered into an asset purchase agreement with RFC 2012 plc acting by its administrators pursuant to which RFCL agreed to purchase certain assets and liabilities comprised in the business owned by RFC 2012 plc known as the Rangers Football Club (the “APA”).
However we know from the Board Minute provided by CF that on 12 May 2012 a binding offer from Sevco 5088 to D&P was made to buy the business and assets of Rangers for £5.5 million cash.
More importantly we know that the signatories to the APA as stated in the AIM Prospectus weren’t just D&P (representing Rangers 2012 Plc) and Sevco Scotland but also Sevco 5088 which is totally ignored in the AIM Prospectus.
But the leaked minute gives the game away by stating that Sevco 5088 provided: ‘Written consent to the change of acquiring entity’.
Of course we must remember the curious mention of the balances novated from Sevco 5088 Ltd to TRFCL in the AIM Prospectus. Curious in that Sevco 5088 was only mentioned because it was classed a ‘related party’ because Green was the sole shareholder in it. No mention it was the original purchaser of the Rangers business and assets.
Of course later following the media speculation caused by Whyte stating he was a director of Sevco 5088 RIFC Plc had to admit via an AIM announcement that Sevco 5088 Ltd was actually a subsidiary of RIFC Plc but still nor mention of its key initial role.
Another thought struck me that Green talks about him and Ahmad playing Whyte along and stiffing him. But actually I don’t think he was the target but rather Ticketus. The simple switch from the English registered Sevco 5088 Ltd to the Scottish registered Sevco Scotland Ltd kicked the ball out of the park for Ticketus because of the way the ticket loans were dealt with under Scots Law as opposed to the English courts.
I have always wondered how Ticketus could have been so stupid not to know the legal difference but they DID because they thought an English company had bought the Rangers business and assets ❗
SouthernExile says:
September 8, 2013 at 11:57 am
If the APA was trilateral, would it not obviate the need for a separate novation?
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If you read my post above you will see that there was a written agreement between Sevco 5088, D&P and Sevco Scotland to change the acquiring party from Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland – that is the novation document in all but name.
However and I speculate here – by the time that minute was written there were possible rumblings and the word ‘novation’ was possibly being thrown about. I always felt that Bomber Brown had a bit of the truth but nowhere near all. He should have been calling for the Novation Doc rather than the deeds and maybe that’s what he was trying to do.
No matter, I’m sure ‘novation’ was surfacing I think as a ‘problem’ and what better way to explain it to those not in the know but to conflate it with novation of Ahmad’s loan. Does anyone actually believe that the farcical transfer of money by Whyte to Ahmad’s mum would ever have been written down in an official document.
EDIT ADD
And as the agreement was trilateral why does the Rangers AIM Prospectus say it was bilateral and airbrush out Sevco 5088 Ltd the acquiring party of the Rangers business and assets according to TRFC and its directors who passed the minute where it is stated.
TRFC quarter final was postponed yesterday for tv. Now being shown on BBC ALBA and because of players away on international duty Apart from Wallace Does anyone know who else was called up ?
@ecobhoy
“RIFC Plc had to admit via an AIM announcement that Sevco 5088 Ltd was actually a subsidiary of RIFC Plc”
Surely it was an assertion rather than an admission! Others assert otherwise.
“In a stock exchange announcement on Wednesday, Worthington Group plc confirmed it had purchased 26% of Law Financial Limited as Mr Whyte seeks to reclaim control of Rangers’ assets.
The announcement states that among Law Financial’s subsidiaries is Sevco 5088 Limited, the company at the centre of the dispute between Mr Whyte and Rangers chief executive Charles Green.”
Ecobhoy….excellent work! I think we may have the smoking gun and maybe this was final push from Charlotte to Chico and Imran that said enough we will deal with you. If Charlotte comes back the deal did not happen. I am thinking side letters are at the ready for when the rest of Imrans and Chicos shares are sold……always assuming that the company is still trading. On the other hand if I was a potential buyer I might use the document to bring the rogues down effectively put Rangers into insolvency and dare I say it start again! Help ma Boab!
‘Written consent to the change of acquiring entity’. in others words the bloody novation some of us have been rambling on about….
Barcabhoy says:
September 8, 2013 at 10:52 am
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@ Barcabhoy
You might want to have a look at the two posts undernoted re Sevco 5088. Wrt the voluntary striking-off that was commenced in December 2012 by Green as ‘sole’ director of Sevco 5088 Ltd using FFW and if memory serves me correctly prior to RIFC Plc being forced into confirming it was a subsidiary company. I think Green probably took the steps because he knew CW was looking for blood and money 😉
UNDERNOTE
ecobhoy says:
September 7, 2013 at 2:50 pm
ecobhoy says:
September 7, 2013 at 3:49 pm
FIFA says:
September 8, 2013 at 9:21 am
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I actually share Dundee Utd’s concern over the transparency of the disciplinary system. I just think it should be acknowledged that Celtic have suffered from it at least as much as any other club.
John Lee Hooker says
It was me that contacted MU Charity Foundation and i got a holding reply.
If anyone has a copy of the TRFC minutes showing their intention to use the income for their own use please repost them or get the mods to send them to me and I’ll recontact MUCF.
#ConfusedBySevcoShenanigans
So at some point CG was sole shareholder of Sevco5088?
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/sevco-5088
Directors and Company Secretaries
Aidan Earley
9 May 2012 ⇒ Present day (1 Year ) Director
Charles Green
3 May 2012 ⇒ Present day (1 Year ) Director
Samuel Lloyd
29 Mar 2012 ⇒ 3 May 2012 (1 Month ) Director
Craig Whyte
9 May 2012 ⇒ Present day (1 Year ) Director
So Sevco5088 was setup by Sam Lloyd, who transferred it to CG, who had independent control of it for 6 days until he brought on board CW and AE.
Seems like 6 days is a lot of time to do mischief, especially if you have all the pieces lined up in advance…
on the new additions to the sevco board if they materialise,could it be a tactic much like dick advocaat not getting the sack but moving “upstairs”.will we see a gradual decrease in spivs exiting with bags of cash for their penny shares and before we know it right before our very eyes a board full of real rangers men.this could be the latest switcheroo ji and the msm could point to various squirrels and the gullible wouldn’t have to witness a another public squabble and humiliation.
ForresDee says:
September 8, 2013 at 11:43 am
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The influence Rangers hold over Scottish society can never be underestimated in my view. People often say if that is the case why did they end up in division 3. The answer to that is quite simple, because the fans rallied round and told their clubs no. Let there be no doubt that the SFA, SPL, and the Scottish Government wanted the new incarnation entered directly to the highest league.
upthehoops says:
September 8, 2013 at 1:49 pm
You can’t really single out the Scottish Gov, do you want the list of Labour, Libdem and Tory MPs and MSPs who lobbied on behalf of Rangers or are members of the Westminster rangers supporters club? One of the reasons, this saga has gotten no political traction, is the potentially embarrassing actions of senior members of ALL the political parties. Not to mention the idiotic Labour Councillor who had to be “restrained” by his colleagues from putting forward a motion to Glasgow Council to give Ranger’s financial support….
None of the political entities emerge from this with any credit, to pretend otherwise is, frankly, silly.